Free Estimate Questions

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hardworkingstiff said:
I used to own a job, now I just sit and watch CNBC and day trade. Up $40K so far this year. :D

I still have my license and "job", just waiting for better paying work to show up. Working my side job (trading) until then.
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Cool...what if you miss a great opportunity in the market because your out resetting some lady's GFI (the electrical kind, of course). Now you need to charge the going rate for an electrician and a stock broker.
 
Ohmy said:
I think you think we use a lead service, which we don't (not that I have any opinion on those)

It doesn't matter where your lead comes from, it cost money. Even referals take advertizing, brand awareness, printing and design services, OH, etc.

If I could get free leads, I wouldn't be on here trying to figure out how to close more of them.
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No, I actually was following you quite well with cost of leads. I was just comparing it to a discussion a few days ago about a lead service that sends leads to 3 contractors for a fee. I really wasn't advocating anything other than agreeing there are costs involved with leads no matter the source.
 
The "free estimate" is the equivalent to the "loss leader" scam in retail.

They will advertise an item at below cost to get a prospective customer in the store.

Then the salesmen have to upsell. A salesman at Sears told me he would get fired if he sold the washer that they had advertised. They only had one and they had to use it over and over.
 
ohm said:
The "free estimate" is the equivalent to the "loss leader" scam in retail.

They will advertise an item at below cost to get a prospective customer in the store.

Then the salesmen have to upsell. A salesman at Sears told me he would get fired if he sold the washer that they had advertised. They only had one and they had to use it over and over.
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I don't see it as a "scam" but a "tool" to be used in marketing.If you offer a product or service and deliver that product or service how is it a scam? Offering a product or service and then trying to upsell is salesmanship. A scam would be offering a product or service with no intention of delivering it or refusing to deliver it.
 
bradleyelectric said:
No, I actually was following you quite well with cost of leads. I was just comparing it to a discussion a few days ago about a lead service that sends leads to 3 contractors for a fee. I really wasn't advocating anything other than agreeing there are costs involved with leads no matter the source.
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That makes sense....
 
Rewire said:
I don't see it as a "scam" but a "tool" to be used in marketing.If you offer a product or service and deliver that product or service how is it a scam? Offering a product or service and then trying to upsell is salesmanship. A scam would be offering a product or service with no intention of delivering it or refusing to deliver it.
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If the wash machine is actually for sale and the seller intends to sell, its not a real scam. A car dealer I met advertises cars that don't exist or only come in burnt orange. I think that is pretty scammy, but he would say its sales.

Telling someone you will come to their house and "look things over" or "go over the project" for only $49, $59 whatever is maybe kinda scammy because you know they could be or are thinking "diagnosis" in their mind which you have not intention of selling for just the trip charge.

I am sure there are ways to avoid this issue but based on what I hear from customers it would seem that companies are intentionally creating this exact situation.

Of course there is alot of pressure to run this "tool" when other electricians are going out for free. Which until this tread, I thought was another type of scam but now I guess its just guys giving work away.
 
Ohmy said:
If the wash machine is actually for sale and the seller intends to sell, its not a real scam. A car dealer I met advertises cars that don't exist or only come in burnt orange. I think that is pretty scammy, but he would say its sales.

Telling someone you will come to their house and "look things over" or "go over the project" for only $49, $59 whatever is maybe kinda scammy because you know they could be or are thinking "diagnosis" in their mind which you have not intention of selling for just the trip charge.

I am sure there are ways to avoid this issue but based on what I hear from customers it would seem that companies are intentionally creating this exact situation.

Of course there is alot of pressure to run this "tool" when other electricians are going out for free. Which until this tread, I thought was another type of scam but now I guess its just guys giving work away.
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I wouldn't get to hung up on the word "free" a local gas station gives a "free" car wash with after 5 puches on a card (you get a punch for every 20.00 purchase) this is not truly "free" as it is passed along in the prices of their goods.They hope while you are getting your wash you will buy something in the store and the punch card produces repeat customers.

If you do charge you should make sure that the customer understands the charge and what they will recieve for it,I think the real scam is when you tell someone you will wave a trip charge if they accept your bid.You really didn't wave the charge you just embedded it in the bid.
 
Rewire said:
I wouldn't get to hung up on the word "free" a local gas station gives a "free" car wash with after 5 puches on a card (you get a punch for every 20.00 purchase) this is not truly "free" as it is passed along in the prices of their goods.They hope while you are getting your wash you will buy something in the store and the punch card produces repeat customers.

If you do charge you should make sure that the customer understands the charge and what they will recieve for it,I think the real scam is when you tell someone you will wave a trip charge if they accept your bid.You really didn't wave the charge you just embedded it in the bid.
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"Free" , "look things over" etc. can flip in either direction. As soon as I hear those words I walk away.

But, that technique is being used everyday and must work.

I get a lot of work from people who've been left with a bad taste in their mouths after such an encounter.
 
ohm said:
"Free" , "look things over" etc. can flip in either direction. As soon as I hear those words I walk away.
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I am not sure what your trying to say,flip in either direction? Are you saying as a cunsumer you walk away from free offers?
But, that technique is being used everyday and must work.
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Everyone likes "free" I get "free" delivery of material from my supply house,I know the cost is embedded in the material but I like not paying above that.
I get a lot of work from people who've been left with a bad taste in their mouths after such an encounter.
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The bad taste is probably notfrom the technique but from the technician
 
Rewire said:
I wouldn't get to hung up on the word "free" a local gas station gives a "free" car wash with after 5 puches on a card (you get a punch for every 20.00 purchase) this is not truly "free" as it is passed along in the prices of their goods.They hope while you are getting your wash you will buy something in the store and the punch card produces repeat customers.

If you do charge you should make sure that the customer understands the charge and what they will recieve for it,I think the real scam is when you tell someone you will wave a trip charge if they accept your bid.You really didn't wave the charge you just embedded it in the bid.
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I think waiving the trip charge is fine. I just think of it as a minimum service call fee. If you don't do anything you pay the minimum and if you do you are over the min so it doesn't matter.

We do not call it a min service fee anymore because it creates a anchoring point for people to neg from. e.g "that is five times the min service call...etc."
 
Rewire said:
I am not sure what your trying to say,flip in either direction? Are you saying as a cunsumer you walk away from free offers? Everyone likes "free" I get "free" delivery of material from my supply house,I know the cost is embedded in the material but I like not paying above that.

The bad taste is probably notfrom the technique but from the technician
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I gave up on the "free lunch long ago".

If you walk into a business with a lot of glitter and they offer you free things...do you wonder how they can do it?
 
Rewire said:
I am not sure what your trying to say,flip in either direction? Are you saying as a cunsumer you walk away from free offers? Everyone likes "free" I get "free" delivery of material from my supply house,I know the cost is embedded in the material but I like not paying above that.

The bad taste is probably notfrom the technique but from the technician
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What I meant by the "flipping either way" was if you offer a free estimate or a $49 look around you may be able to upsell OR the customer may throw you out and spend the next two years dragging you through the mud.
 
ohm said:
I gave up on the "free lunch long ago".

If you walk into a business with a lot of glitter and they offer you free things...do you wonder how they can do it?
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As a business I have a budget and in that budget are line items and everything from tools to toilet paper are charged against a line item.

One of our line items is Advertising that is were the freebees get charged against items likehats ,pens,tees, ballons for the kids,candy sponsorships and so on.

A business that operates like a business will have a budget for the glitter and the free things they offer. if it got me in the door then it served its purpose.
 
Rewire said:
I think the real scam is when you tell someone you will wave a trip charge if they accept your bid.You really didn't wave the charge you just embedded it in the bid.
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Rewire said:
Everyone likes "free" I get "free" delivery of material from my supply house,I know the cost is embedded in the material but I like not paying above that.
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Rewire said:
As a business I have a budget and in that budget are line items and everything from tools to toilet paper are charged against a line item.

One of our line items is Advertising that is were the freebees get charged against items likehats ,pens,tees, ballons for the kids,candy sponsorships and so on.

A business that operates like a business will have a budget for the glitter and the free things they offer. if it got me in the door then it served its purpose.
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so it's ok to offer 'free' estimates and add the cost to the invoices of all your paying customers....but not to charge a service charge and just add it to the price of the job for that one customer?.....
 
emahler said:
so it's ok to offer 'free' estimates and add the cost to the invoices of all your paying customers....but not to charge a service charge and just add it to the price of the job for that one customer?.....
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Unfortunately, that's the way it is and always will be.

People who shoplift, cheat on their taxes, etc. transfer the cost of their theft to the only ones left...the paying customer.

If the owner pays for the free items, he's stealing from his family or partners.
 
emahler said:
so it's ok to offer 'free' estimates and add the cost to the invoices of all your paying customers....but not to charge a service charge and just add it to the price of the job for that one customer?.....
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Yes it is Ok to offer "no extra COST" estimates and embed that cost in overhead.All clients are offered the service at no up front or extra cost customers who are not complete morons will understand that this service is a part of overhead. Telling a customer you are waving a "charge" when in fact you are not is dishonest.

My light bill is also a part of overhead and is embedded in the price I charge when a customer walks into my office looking for a quote I don't tell them that I have a ten dollar "light" charge and I will wave it if the take my bid. Having lights to see by is "free" to the customer.
 
Rewire said:
Yes it is Ok to offer "no extra COST" estimates and embed that cost in overhead.All clients are offered the service at no up front or extra cost customers who are not complete morons will understand that this service is a part of overhead. Telling a customer you are waving a "charge" when in fact you are not is dishonest.

My light bill is also a part of overhead and is embedded in the price I charge when a customer walks into my office looking for a quote I don't tell them that I have a ten dollar "light" charge and I will wave it if the take my bid. Having lights to see by is "free" to the customer.
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If the light bill is embedded in the price how is that free to the customer?
Sounds to me the customer is paying for it.
Do you tell the customer they don't pay for the lights, the phone, the office staff, etc. It's all free?

If you give 5 free estimates and get 2 jobs from from the 5 free estimates who pays for the other 3 free estimates?

It sounds like to me the two customers that bought from you not only have to pay for their estimate but also share the cost for the other 3 estimates, yet you told the customer the estimate is free.

Do you tell the customer it's only free if you don't buy from us?
 
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