Frequency drives

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rkrieger

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Many thanks to those of you responding to my converting 1PH to 3Ph for motors question. One of my sources said to use a Frequency Drive. Could someone either explain how this works OR give me a link so that I might know how it works. I got a handle on Static and Rotary conversion, but I would like to know how these frequency drive things work. As always, thanks in advance to those who respond.

Dick Krieger
 
Hears what I heard!

Hears what I heard!

Think of it as a motors, Resistance Dimmer with smarts. Working on principles of service supply and demand of ... your motors are not required for continual duty and cycle through service accordingly.

Ok, someone said that to me the other day :rolleyes: I thought Good answer...
 
Basic version:

A VFD (Variable Frequency Drive) consists of 3 parts: A Converter, which converts the AC incoming power to DC and filters the ripple, a Controller that decides what needs to happen and how to get there, and an Inverter, which takes the DC and fires high speed transistors to re-convert (invert) it back into something that motors use the same as AC (pseudo AC).

In the Converter section, AC line power is nothing more than the "raw material" to make DC, from which the new pseudo AC is going to be created. So the incoming AC power can be 3 phase OR single phase. The only difference is that if you use single phase, the number of sine waves going through the rectifier and making DC is lower, so the DC will have more ripple in it. Therefore, the filtering part of the Converter needs to be capable of handling and smoothing that higher ripple, i.e. more capacitance. In addition, the power that the 3 phase motor will draw remains the same, but now it has to come from a 1 phase source instead of a 3 phase source. So the incoming current will go up by the 1 to 3 phase ratio, the square root of 3. So the 1 phase current will increase to 1.732 time what the 3 phase current would have been. This means that the Converter section, when combined with the extra capacitance needed, must be twice the size of the 3 phase motor it is going to control.

In small 230V VFDs (3HP and under), most manufacturers go ahead and make the Converter components big enough to do this since they are relatively small currents anyway. A couple of mfrs go up to 5HP without derating, but the general rule is, above 3 HP you should plan on doubling the size of the VFD. So if you have a 10HP motor, you buy a 20HP VFD if you want a 1 phase input.
 
Jraef said:
So if you have a 10HP motor, you buy a 20HP VFD if you want a 1 phase input.
Wouldn't the HP-to-Kva ratio be the same regardless of phase, voltage, etc.? Line current increasing, yes, but HP rating?
 
What Jraef is referring to is that VFD's are actually rated by their amps. When you use a VFD with a single phase input, you only have half the input bridge available to energize the DC bus. So you must double the size of the VFD to get the correct amount of amps out of the drive for the load.

I have done applications such as this from 1 hp up to 25 HP, It's not difficult.

I hope this helps.
 
boater bill said:
What Jraef is referring to is that VFD's are actually rated by their amps. When you use a VFD with a single phase input, you only have half the input bridge available to energize the DC bus. So you must double the size of the VFD to get the correct amount of amps out of the drive for the load.

I have done applications such as this from 1 hp up to 25 HP, It's not difficult.

I hope this helps.

That seems difficult. Why wouldn't the manufacturer just list the unit with both the 3-phase and 1-phase ratings on the unit.
 
Why wouldn't the manufacturer just list the unit with both the 3-phase and 1-phase ratings on the unit.
Because just applying a standard HP/AMP/Voltage rating confuses a lot of the people to begin with, having a 1-phase and 3-phase rating would cause nightmares. When I was working for a VFD manufacturer, the tech support lines were busy enough without that variable.
The reps and applications guys all know about it and could recommend solutions using standard product offerings. It is inefficient but is a practical solution.
And the UL label is unaffected by the single phase input applications.
 
Any VFD will work on single phase input to generate the 3-phase output to turn the motor. The problem is the diminished returns of applying a 50 HP drive to turn a 25 HP motor.

The input lugs of the VFD's have diodes to energize the DC bus. The DC bus is where the IGBT's generate the output power. If half of the input diodes are energized, then the DC bus has half the amps available. Then the IGBT's have half the amps available. So double the size of the drive amp rating to get the correct load amps to the motor.
 
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