Fridays pictures on Friday

Status
Not open for further replies.
K

KentAT

Senior Member
Location
Northeastern PA
chris kennedy said:
Not a problem at all. I asked if anyone could see issues here. Bear in mind that the steps built here tend to disappear as the sun hits them and as we back fill. Cave ins are an issue here and it always happens on the side the sun hits.

Would you have an OSHA link for this type of work?
Click to expand...

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=10930

1. Looks like sand or another "granular material", making it likely to be a Type C soil classification. That requires sloping to be 1.5:1, horizontal to vertical. Assuming the excavation depth is 6 feet, the sides would need to be sloped 9 feet horizontally for the 6 feet vertical. Not even close in that photo. OSHA 1926.652(b)(1) for starters, unless another slope design option is selected and used, and 1926 Subpart P App B

2. Means of egress - ladder should be long enough to extend 3 feet above the edge of the trench. This is what I've been taught, but I can't find it in the OSHA regs.

3. Spoil pile at least 2 feet from edge of trench. OSHA 1926.651(j)(2)

BTW, last year, another employee of my company was onsite while a utility was installing lines crossing our buried gas pipeline. Their trench was 8-10 ft deep I think, and our guy expressed concerns to the utility guy about how it was an unsafe trench and the utility guy came over to talk to our guy. It wasn't our trench or our responsibility, but it was worth it to our guy to speak up and mention it for safety's sake. While they were discussing it in a friendly manner, the trench collapsed right in front of them. It surely would have killed the utility dude if he were down in the trench.

Kent
 
Last edited:
ivsenroute

ivsenroute

Senior Member
Location
Florida
Ahhhhhhh the perils of posting one's pictures on this site. It can be a wakeup call. I know firsthand.

In this case, the electrical installation became backseat to significant safety issues and I AM THRILLED that so many people went right to the OSHA and safety issues.

Excellent.
 
quogueelectric

quogueelectric

Senior Member
Location
new york
chris kennedy said:
12/05/08. Another day at the beach. Whats that red stuff? Deep enough?

Lifeskillsunderground12-5009.jpg


This is a 5" PVC POCO MV primary and a 2" feeder for pool panel and three 2" data com conduits. Any problems here?

Lifeskillsunderground12-5012.jpg
Click to expand...

Alright I will go fourhundred for the steel toed sneakers in the picture. I always like to run my pool feeders with my primary.
 
Last edited:
2

220/221

Senior Member
Location
AZ
Going down in that hole is just plain stupid.
Click to expand...

Not really. The conduit was about 3 1/2 to 4' deep. If the hole collapsed it could only bury my feet.....and 1/2 my ladder.

Even if you had your head out the hole when it collapsed, you would still die from constriction of the chest.
Click to expand...

Uhh...no. there is still a hole to fill. The ground can't magically just completely close up. If it wasn't safe, I wouldn't have done it. It's not like I climbed all the way to the bottom and worked the conduit at eye level. My chest was above grade most of the time. I had to bend in to measure, glue and fit the PVC. Even a complete collapse would not have put me in peril.

Soil conditions were good too.
 
Last edited:
masterinbama

masterinbama

Senior Member
Location
Huntsville Alabama
Osha also frowns upon sleeveless shirts.
As far as I can tell the excavation is stepped back an acceptable distance. I wish our soil was like that.Around here we have what is called CHIRT I think it stands for Crusty Hard Impenetrable Rocky Trash. I go through 2 sets of backhoe teeth a year.
 
Last edited:
roger

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
I posted this article in this thread a few years ago, it had some pictures in the original which were sad to see.

As far as OSHA is concerned in the article, you would probably get off lighter having someone die in a trench than you would just getting caught in an improper trench.
icon13.gif


Roger
 
don_resqcapt19

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
220/221 said:
Not really. The conduit was about 3 1/2 to 4' deep. If the hole collapsed it could only bury my feet.....and 1/2 my ladder.



Uhh...no. there is still a hole to fill. The ground can't magically just completely close up. If it wasn't safe, I wouldn't have done it. It's not like I climbed all the way to the bottom and worked the conduit at eye level. My chest was above grade most of the time. I had to bend in to measure, glue and fit the PVC. Even a complete collapse would not have put me in peril.

Soil conditions were good too.
Click to expand...
Even if the hole was poured concrete it is a confined space with a depth of more than 5'. A harness and a mechanical means of lifting you out of there is required. It may even be a permit required confined space entry triggering even more safety precautions.
 
Fulthrotl

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Location
HB, CA (19 Hrs. 22 Min. from Winged Horses)
Occupation
E
roger said:
As far as OSHA is concerned in the article, you would probably get off lighter having someone die in a trench than you would just getting caught in an improper trench.
icon13.gif


Roger
Click to expand...

please note, the following screed and diatribe is not related to this
thread at all, but is in response to roger's link to the article about
the plumbers apprentice being killed in a cave in. it's worth reading.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...2A15751C1A9659C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

after reading this article, the contempt and utter disregard that i hold
for OSHA was just re established. no new information, just a reaffirmation
of old disgust.

OSHA isn't the problem, and it sure isn't the solution. IMHO, you know
what the problem is?

US. all of us.

workplace safety is the first item on a list that might be called
"workplace conditions"...... and there are a number of aspects to it,
including, but not limited to:

personal physical safety.
clean toilet areas.
proper dust control.

30 years ago, if there was an intolerable workplace situation,
the foremen, or general foremen for the various trades would
go have a chat with the GC's project management, and the
situation would be corrected.

if your jobsite trailer is invaded by the sparkie, sprinkie, and
tin knocker's foremen, and they all matter of factly say you
WILL provide a rent a cop for the offsite parking lot, so the
craftspeople don't have their cars broken into, it'll get done.
is it a safety issue? no. is it important? yes. do you have
the right to expect your personal effects to be secure if you
are required to leave your vehicle 3 miles away, as a condition
of your employment? i think so.

people often underestimate the effectiveness of simple
intimidation, and the certain knowledge that a work stoppage
is the likely outcome of noncompliance with a reasonable request.

nobody has the stones to do this anymore. this lack of stones
is the REAL unsafe situation on most jobsites.

i have a ZERO tolerance for people ruining my working conditions
because they are too cheap, lazy, or pigheaded stupid to
provide a decent working situation.

if i am spending 8 hours breathing dirt and drywall dust because
you are too cheap to buy $18 worth of sweeping compound for
your laborer who is sweeping the floors on a high rise that is
enclosed, don't be surprised if i want to march you up there
to stand right next to me and breath it in for half an hour,
before i knock your teeth out.

when i noticed working conditions turning to trash was in the
early 80's, when a sparky needed to work 52 weeks a year to
make their mortgage payment, and the payment on the ski boat,
anda, anda, anda.... and they couldn't afford to risk losing a
job because they complained about unsafe or unhealthy work
conditions. in the southern california area, that's when i really
noticed things going to seed.

so, from my point of view, the FIRST unsafe thing i can do is
to live my life from such an overextended point of view,
that i can't AFFORD to walk off a job to save my life.

and whose fault is that? an employer?
i don't think so.

i was a second year apprentice, and my journeyman was a
man who i'll call "wild bill k*****"

the plumber on a commercial job (hospital) was doing something
slightly unsafe, and extremely annoying. bill went over at lunch
to talk to him about it, and was told in no uncertain terms where
he could place his problem.

bill didn't even blink. he walked over to his truck, reached behind
the seat, and pulled out a 12 gauge shotgun, and walked back
to the plumbers trailer, jacked a round in, and announced if the
plumber didn't stop the offending actions, bill would kill him, and
his dog as well. calmly, quietly, like a man ordering breakfast.

my eyes musta looked like saucers. i believed he would do it.
i think the plumber believed it as well. the problem was resolved,
and by the end of the job, they were pretty good friends, enough
to have a beer after work together.

you say you'd call the police? on wild bill? are you NUTS?
that would be a REALLY unsafe act. nobody even considered it,
of that i am sure.

he wasn't the craziest guy on the crew, either. there was
another guy who REALLY scared me. wild bill was merely a
man who could be persuasive.

everyone on the jobsite was well behaved after that, and
considerate of each other, and of each other's work.

all you need is a self appointed safety officer with a shotgun,
putting the fun back in dysfunctional.


randy
 
quogueelectric

quogueelectric

Senior Member
Location
new york
Fulthrotl said:
please note, the following screed and diatribe is not related to this
thread at all, but is in response to roger's link to the article about
the plumbers apprentice being killed in a cave in. it's worth reading.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...2A15751C1A9659C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

after reading this article, the contempt and utter disregard that i hold
for OSHA was just re established. no new information, just a reaffirmation
of old disgust.

OSHA isn't the problem, and it sure isn't the solution. IMHO, you know
what the problem is?

US. all of us.

workplace safety is the first item on a list that might be called
"workplace conditions"...... and there are a number of aspects to it,
including, but not limited to:

personal physical safety.
clean toilet areas.
proper dust control.

30 years ago, if there was an intolerable workplace situation,
the foremen, or general foremen for the various trades would
go have a chat with the GC's project management, and the
situation would be corrected.

if your jobsite trailer is invaded by the sparkie, sprinkie, and
tin knocker's foremen, and they all matter of factly say you
WILL provide a rent a cop for the offsite parking lot, so the
craftspeople don't have their cars broken into, it'll get done.
is it a safety issue? no. is it important? yes. do you have
the right to expect your personal effects to be secure if you
are required to leave your vehicle 3 miles away, as a condition
of your employment? i think so.

people often underestimate the effectiveness of simple
intimidation, and the certain knowledge that a work stoppage
is the likely outcome of noncompliance with a reasonable request.

nobody has the stones to do this anymore. this lack of stones
is the REAL unsafe situation on most jobsites.

i have a ZERO tolerance for people ruining my working conditions
because they are too cheap, lazy, or pigheaded stupid to
provide a decent working situation.

if i am spending 8 hours breathing dirt and drywall dust because
you are too cheap to buy $18 worth of sweeping compound for
your laborer who is sweeping the floors on a high rise that is
enclosed, don't be surprised if i want to march you up there
to stand right next to me and breath it in for half an hour,
before i knock your teeth out.

when i noticed working conditions turning to trash was in the
early 80's, when a sparky needed to work 52 weeks a year to
make their mortgage payment, and the payment on the ski boat,
anda, anda, anda.... and they couldn't afford to risk losing a
job because they complained about unsafe or unhealthy work
conditions. in the southern california area, that's when i really
noticed things going to seed.

so, from my point of view, the FIRST unsafe thing i can do is
to live my life from such an overextended point of view,
that i can't AFFORD to walk off a job to save my life.

and whose fault is that? an employer?
i don't think so.

i was a second year apprentice, and my journeyman was a
man who i'll call "wild bill k*****"

the plumber on a commercial job (hospital) was doing something
slightly unsafe, and extremely annoying. bill went over at lunch
to talk to him about it, and was told in no uncertain terms where
he could place his problem.

bill didn't even blink. he walked over to his truck, reached behind
the seat, and pulled out a 12 gauge shotgun, and walked back
to the plumbers trailer, jacked a round in, and announced if the
plumber didn't stop the offending actions, bill would kill him, and
his dog as well. calmly, quietly, like a man ordering breakfast.

my eyes musta looked like saucers. i believed he would do it.
i think the plumber believed it as well. the problem was resolved,
and by the end of the job, they were pretty good friends, enough
to have a beer after work together.

you say you'd call the police? on wild bill? are you NUTS?
that would be a REALLY unsafe act. nobody even considered it,
of that i am sure.

he wasn't the craziest guy on the crew, either. there was
another guy who REALLY scared me. wild bill was merely a
man who could be persuasive.

everyone on the jobsite was well behaved after that, and
considerate of each other, and of each other's work.

all you need is a self appointed safety officer with a shotgun,
putting the fun back in dysfunctional.


randy
Click to expand...

Hey I like Bill and s--ew the plumbers
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top