FROG or bedroom?

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scwirenut

scwirenut

Senior Member
Location
Sumter, South Carolina
1900sq/ft home with 500sq/ft frog (finished room over garage).it states "bonus room" on plans. inspector insists its a bedroom (requiring AFCI)because of window size and closet..homeowner has plans for rec room. I say NEC has no claims for future, but what if this were a spec. home not yet having a owner....do you guys AFCI bonus rooms?
 
Re: FROG or bedroom?

I never have, but I can see an inspector pushing for one. If the approved set of plans (the same set that was used for getting the original permits) says "bonus room", it's not a bedroom. I'm not sure how hard I'd fight about it, unless I fed it with a multiwire circuit. I have had inspectors gig me for not AFCI-ing a "bedroom" that was actually a library or office on the prints. It's hard to tell sometimes, particularly if they have a closet. My contract permits me to charge more for additional work required by the inspector, so that's a nice way to not have to fight because of the cost factor.
 
Re: FROG or bedroom?

We treat rooms like this as if it were a bed I just dont install a AFCI braker unless I have too. 1 more somoke not that much cost.
 
Re: FROG or bedroom?

Here it goes by what stamp print said it is.Several months back i wired a house for a friend of my boss.This was about 4,000 sq ft.but only showed 1 bed room.On other side of house were two rooms that had entry from a hall and full bath off hall.Met everything of a bedroom minus a closet.They without dought will someday be used as bedrooms.First thing inspector said on rough was where are the smokes? I nicely told him that the print did not call them bedrooms.Had he pushed the issue i already was wired to take an afci breaker and could easily add the smokes.Nothing i said to builder or owner would get them to change there minds.This is one time i would have liked to get a red tag.
 
Re: FROG or bedroom?

Unfortunately, the NEC doesn't define what a "bedroom" is, so it's up to the AHJ. The AHJs I deal with generally say if it could be used as a bedroom, it's considered a bedroom.

This is what one local AHJ has published:
Any room that may be used as a bedroom by its basic design will be required to have AFCI protection, regardless of its stated use. Studies, dens, sewing rooms and similarly named rooms that could be used for bedrooms will be considered as bedrooms regardless of their present use or designation by the owner.
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Re: FROG or bedroom?

Originally posted by jeff43222:
Unfortunately, the NEC doesn't define what a "bedroom" is, so it's up to the AHJ. The AHJs I deal with generally say if it could be used as a bedroom, it's considered a bedroom.

This is what one local AHJ has published:
Any room that may be used as a bedroom by its basic design will be required to have AFCI protection, regardless of its stated use. Studies, dens, sewing rooms and similarly named rooms that could be used for bedrooms will be considered as bedrooms regardless of their present use or designation by the owner.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Your inspectors are retarded. :roll:
 
Re: FROG or bedroom?

This is what one local AHJ has published:

quote:
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Any room that may be used as a bedroom by its basic design will be required to have AFCI protection, regardless of its stated use. Studies, dens, sewing rooms and similarly named rooms that could be used for bedrooms will be considered as bedrooms regardless of their present use or designation by the owner.
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I can see his point, I have slept in the den, living room, front porch,I even fell asleep in a attic one time after an all nighter at the local beer joint, and when she gets really mad its the dog house for me, would these require AFCIs :eek: :eek:
 
Re: FROG or bedroom?

Jim, see Scotts post above.

Roger
 
Re: FROG or bedroom?

I don't know if the inspectors are retarded. Here we have a lot of four and five bedroom homes that are sold. Three of the bedrooms are legal. The one or two in the basement are not. No window, no smoke detector, no arc fault. Home inspectors don't catch this and people buy the houses and let their children sleep in bedrooms that do not meet minimum safety standards. They list these rooms as storage on the building permit and as bedrooms when the house is sold. They should at the very least be forced to list these rooms as areas that could be used for bedrooms if brought up to code. We live by the honor system and the honor system has never worked.
 
Re: FROG or bedroom?

It must be because branch circuit wiring catches on fire when you fall asleep.
 
Re: FROG or bedroom?

People normally don't burn to death in houses. If they are awake they simply walk out of the house when it starts to fill with smoke. The real danger is death by smoke inhalation. If you are asleep it's possible to die and never be touched by flame. Most of the violations that I see are not because the builder or homeowner doesn't want to pay for an arc fault but because the room is below grade and the second egress is not practicable. If you install the smoke detector and arc fault then the inspector knows it's going to be used as a bedroom. So one violation can lead to two more in an attempt to hide a fact ( this room is actually a bedroom ).
 
Re: FROG or bedroom?

Originally posted by jeff43222:
Unfortunately, the NEC doesn't define what a "bedroom" is, so it's up to the AHJ. The AHJs I deal with generally say if it could be used as a bedroom, it's considered a bedroom.
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Around here, the presence of a closet is generally the deciding factor.
 
Re: FROG or bedroom?

Bob and Roger,i seen his post before i made mine :roll: It doesn't change my opinion one bit but he is intitled to his too.If nec won't take action then i am glad someone did.Can we ever over protect people from a fire ?So this adds to the cost.If everyone in that area is doing it then its fair.Or is a life not worth a few extra dollars :roll:
 
Re: FROG or bedroom?

This is old ground, but I'm still waiting to see any evidence that AFI's do anything useful to begin with, I mean aside from generating profit.
 
Re: FROG or bedroom?

Originally posted by LarryFine:
Originally posted by jeff43222:
Unfortunately, the NEC doesn't define what a "bedroom" is, so it's up to the AHJ. The AHJs I deal with generally say if it could be used as a bedroom, it's considered a bedroom.
Click to expand...
Around here, the presence of a closet is generally the deciding factor.
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I have a closet in my dining room, my family room and my finished basement. Cha ching! :p
 
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