Frustrated

[ptonsparky]

Customer wants a current sensor installed to start/stop a 2nd motor at a set point. Ok. In and out in a couple hours with an hour to spare. Always a firm price for this Co. They call a couple days later after greasing some bearings and need the trip point adjusted lower because Motor 2 will not start. Not a good sign but OK. They insist bearings are fine. There went the extra hour. Week or so later Motor 2 does not always stop and yes they are sure the bearings are good, it is just that the product does not always flow the same. Humidity. Barometric pressure. They don't know why. Ok. I suggest they use a spare "radar" device they have that will detect product flow. If they remove and reinstall at the new location I will wire and make the initial settiings. They are responsible for "fine tuning". They can be a royal PIA but work once set.

How much?
$$
But we already paid for the other stuff!!
Yup, you did and I already have an hour into this next project.

Time for me to quit. Next time one of the phone calls come in asking if I want to sell my business, I just may say "Yes"

 

[Fulthrotl]

Customer wants a current sensor installed to start/stop a 2nd motor at a set point. Ok. In and out in a couple hours with an hour to spare. Always a firm price for this Co. They call a couple days later after greasing some bearings and need the trip point adjusted lower because Motor 2 will not start. Not a good sign but OK. They insist bearings are fine. There went the extra hour. Week or so later Motor 2 does not always stop and yes they are sure the bearings are good, it is just that the product does not always flow the same. Humidity. Barometric pressure. They don't know why. Ok. I suggest they use a spare "radar" device they have that will detect product flow. If they remove and reinstall at the new location I will wire and make the initial settiings. They are responsible for "fine tuning". They can be a royal PIA but work once set.

How much?
$$
But we already paid for the other stuff!!
Yup, you did and I already have an hour into this next project.

Time for me to quit. Next time one of the phone calls come in asking if I want to sell my business, I just may say "Yes"

nah, nothing that a change of customers won't fix. be sure to leave the number in your phone so that you won't answer it by
accident, however.

i've got one of those who made that list day before yesterday. third time they have called me to give a price, i've spent time
dealing with them, then.....

then they do it in house, breaking pavers with a zoom boom in the
process, driving a 40' boom onto pavers without cribbing.

then they ask me for a price for cabling.... and after asking me what my
plan for it is, they do it in house, and say they will keep me in mind for
future opportunities.

i've probably got six hours time over the last three blow offs, going to
meet with them, discussing endlessly what they want to do, etc.

my wife remarked "this isn't the first time they have done this, is it"?"
and i said... no, it's the last time they have done it.

 

[cadpoint]

Don't you have a consulting rate?

If you don't have one then set one up and tell them your client of this X amount to come and tell them how to do it. If you don't have a rate then raise your present rate for that job to include the modiest charge of covering/consulting for them and your time.

If they are fishing for how to, and tap your knowledge and experience on the matter aren't you, if present for various meeting per the same "job" are you not worthy of compensation?

It seems even worse to use your time and knowledge to be used to set up for them to in-house it!

Around here it's not uncommon to have people placed on the job, both white and blue collar -for both long and short durations, it's done everyday and the meter is running, and people are covering thier expenses and making profit.

Besides it's the first of the year, second quarter for most companies, raise your rate for this company... JMO

 

[ActionDave]

Customer wants a current sensor installed to start/stop a 2nd motor at a set point. Ok. In and out in a couple hours with an hour to spare. Always a firm price for this Co. They call a couple days later after greasing some bearings and need the trip point adjusted lower because Motor 2 will not start. Not a good sign but OK. They insist bearings are fine. There went the extra hour. Week or so later Motor 2 does not always stop and yes they are sure the bearings are good, it is just that the product does not always flow the same. Humidity. Barometric pressure. They don't know why. Ok. I suggest they use a spare "radar" device they have that will detect product flow. If they remove and reinstall at the new location I will wire and make the initial settiings. They are responsible for "fine tuning". They can be a royal PIA but work once set.

How much?
$$
But we already paid for the other stuff!!
Yup, you did and I already have an hour into this next project.

Time for me to quit. Next time one of the phone calls come in asking if I want to sell my business, I just may say "Yes"

The bearings may be good but so packed with grease they are not working like they should. Most people over grease, and when there is a problem they add more grease.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Don't you have a consulting rate?

If you don't have one then set one up and tell them your client of this X amount to come and tell them how to do it. If you don't have a rate then raise your present rate for that job to include the modiest charge of covering/consulting for them and your time.

If they are fishing for how to, and tap your knowledge and experience on the matter aren't you, if present for various meeting per the same "job" are you not worthy of compensation?

It seems even worse to use your time and knowledge to be used to set up for them to in-house it!

Around here it's not uncommon to have people placed on the job, both white and blue collar -for both long and short durations, it's done everyday and the meter is running, and people are covering thier expenses and making profit.

Besides it's the first of the year, second quarter for most companies, raise your rate for this company... JMO

i have a customer PITA factor i use when bidding work, that allows for this sort of stuff.

i've been compensated fairly for the time i've put in with them for the last couple years.... and they have gotten fair
value for what i've done.... what annoyed me is the rudeness of it, not the financial aspect.

i have a simple, for me, method on my income.... i figure out what i want to have as a net income for a month.
i take a dry erase pen, and i write that number on the inside of my windshield, just above the horizon, so i'm looking
thru it as i drive down the road.... so i'm not consciously staring at it, but it's always in front of me... once it gets
into the subconscous, coincidences and situations show up that bring me opportunities that end up with that amount
of money showing up.

there is only a couple reasons why a person wouldn't do something like that.. first, that cynicism and disbelief would
keep someone from even trying, and the second reason, is that it leaves you naked so to speak, in front of the whole
world... cause you will get asked whats with the number on the windshield......

however, before i can write down a believable number, one that i can believe, i need to have a good record of what my
expenses are, so i know what to ask for.....

when i first started trying this, in 1991, work in this area was horrible.. there wasn't any.... and i figured i HAD to have
$5,500 come in the door that month, or i was screwed... so i wrote $5,500 up on the windshield, and went about doing
the stuff that showed up in front of me.....

and two days later, my wife's car wouldn't start... went thru the phone book, and found a good RX-7 mechanic nearby...
dropped the car off, and he gave me a ride back home, and asked what i did... i said i was an electrician... and he said...
can you put in can lighting?...

he had an 1,800 sq ft house.... we put in $6,300 worth of can lights in the next two weeks.... i've had the weirdest stuff
just show up.... i started increasing the number on the windshield, and over a period of about 7 or 8 months, it went from
$5,500 to $12,500 a month, and i discovered i could work myself to death with this.... six 12's a week.

so how much is on the windshield for january? $10,300. it'll show up.

but thanks for the insight about a consulting rate... i need to have something like that for situations like this.

 

[Joethemechanic]

i have a customer PITA factor i use when bidding work, that allows for this sort of stuff.

i've been compensated fairly for the time i've put in with them for the last couple years.... and they have gotten fair
value for what i've done.... what annoyed me is the rudeness of it, not the financial aspect.

i have a simple, for me, method on my income.... i figure out what i want to have as a net income for a month.
i take a dry erase pen, and i write that number on the inside of my windshield, just above the horizon, so i'm looking
thru it as i drive down the road.... so i'm not consciously staring at it, but it's always in front of me... once it gets
into the subconscous, coincidences and situations show up that bring me opportunities that end up with that amount
of money showing up.

there is only a couple reasons why a person wouldn't do something like that.. first, that cynicism and disbelief would
keep someone from even trying, and the second reason, is that it leaves you naked so to speak, in front of the whole
world... cause you will get asked whats with the number on the windshield......

however, before i can write down a believable number, one that i can believe, i need to have a good record of what my
expenses are, so i know what to ask for.....

when i first started trying this, in 1991, work in this area was horrible.. there wasn't any.... and i figured i HAD to have
$5,500 come in the door that month, or i was screwed... so i wrote $5,500 up on the windshield, and went about doing
the stuff that showed up in front of me.....

and two days later, my wife's car wouldn't start... went thru the phone book, and found a good RX-7 mechanic nearby...
dropped the car off, and he gave me a ride back home, and asked what i did... i said i was an electrician... and he said...
can you put in can lighting?...

he had an 1,800 sq ft house.... we put in $6,300 worth of can lights in the next two weeks.... i've had the weirdest stuff
just show up.... i started increasing the number on the windshield, and over a period of about 7 or 8 months, it went from
$5,500 to $12,500 a month, and i discovered i could work myself to death with this.... six 12's a week.

so how much is on the windshield for january? $10,300. it'll show up.

but thanks for the insight about a consulting rate... i need to have something like that for situations like this.

Charles M. Schwab of Bethlehem Steel did a similar thing with a piece of chalk on the floor of the melt house at the Sparrow's Point mill. Only he wrote the number of heats made in a shift.

It was in the book [h=1]Sparrows Point : Making Steel--The Rise and Ruin of American Industrial Might[/h]Mark Reutter

• Publisher: Touchstone (October 15, 1989)
• Language: English
• ISBN-10: 0671687522
• ISBN-13: 978-0671687526

It was really a good read

 

[renosteinke]

There are two distinct issues raised here.

The first is 'warranty.' Just what does your work represent? From the start, you need to be clear: "I'm doing what you ask, and make no promises as to the performance - it's your idea, it's your responsibility."

If you said instead "I see your problem and can fix it," then you're on the hook to get it working- even if it means twenty revisits. I had a simple outdoor light instal that went bad this way, and there were more visits / call-backs / re-works on that single light than I care to remember. In the end, it worked right- but that customer is convinced he hired the Keystone cops, and I lost money big time. Well, that's what happens sometimes.

Design time is another issue. Again, if you say 'this will solve the problem,' expect them to hold you to that. If they ask you 'the problem will be solved if you do this,' than you have to be plain as day that the burden is on them. If you're 'solving the problem,' you deserve to bill for it - in addition to whatever they pay you to implement the fix. Didn't bill / quote it right? You eat it. They like the idea, but want to do it 'internally?' Well, you deserve to get paid for the road map you drew for them.

I recall one job I spent three days researching - only to have the CUSStomer stip it down and hand it over to another guy. Lessons learned: the guy was a skunk, and I won't design for free again.