Fuel cell disconnect.....service rated??

[Cyanide02Z06]

All-

I'm been following this forum for a while but not until recently had i had a question that i needed to post.

Do fuel cells, or other forms of distributed generation, require that the main disconnecting means need to be service rated if doing a line side tap?

 

[LEO2854]

All-

I'm been following this forum for a while but not until recently had i had a question that i needed to post.

Do fuel cells, or other forms of distributed generation, require that the main disconnecting means need to be service rated if doing a line side tap?

Yes either way it should be.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[Sierrasparky]

I agree
Welcome to the Forum :thumbsup:

 

[shortcircuit2]

Yes either way it should be.

What code section says it should be service rated?

 

[LEO2854]

What code section says it should be service rated?

230.66 Marking. Service equipment rated at 600 volts or less shall be marked to identify it as being suitable for use as service equipment. All service equipment shall be listed. Individual meter socket enclosures shall not be considered service equipment.

I believe there is another section somewhere as well , but I have not found it yet.

 

[shortcircuit2]

230.66 tells us that service equipment must be "marked".

 

[GoldDigger]

But what defines service equipment? Is it everything that is not on the customer side of a disconnect?
Or only equipment that feeds loads and is directly connected to POCO?

Tapatalk...

 

[LEO2854]

But what defines service equipment? Is it everything that is not on the customer side of a disconnect?
Or only equipment that feeds loads and is directly connected to POCO?

Tapatalk...

Article 100.

Service Equipment. The necessary equipment, usually consisting of a circuit breaker(s) or switch(es) and fuse(s) and their accessories, connected to the load end of service conductors to a building or other structure, or an otherwise designated area, and intended to constitute the main control and cutoff of the supply.

What I cannot find is,"Service-Rated", the only thing I could find close to it was 230.66.

 

[GoldDigger]

But if the only thing on the breaker,and maybe on the whole service, is the fuel cell output, it is not exactly at the LOAD end of the POCO wires. Nor does it contribute to supplying power to the customer.

Tapatalk...

 

[LEO2854]

But if the only thing on the breaker,and maybe on the whole service, is the fuel cell output, it is not exactly at the LOAD end of the POCO wires. Nor does it contribute to supplying power to the customer.

Tapatalk...

I'm not understanding you:blink::lol:

In the OP , He is tapping off of the line side of the disconnect ,Right?

 

[GoldDigger]

Right, which is why there is some question about whether the fuel cell disconnect is a service disconnect or even service equipment.
Personally I think that based on safety considerations it should be, but I am not convinced that the Code says that clearly.


Tapatalk...

 

[LEO2854]

Right, which is why there is some question about whether the fuel cell disconnect is a service disconnect or even service equipment.
Personally I think that based on safety considerations it should be, but I am not convinced that the Code says that clearly.


Tapatalk...

Okay, it seems the we are ending up in this section .

692.65 Utility-Interactive Point of Connection. Point of connection shall be in accordance with 705.12.

so we go here.

705.12 Point of Connection. The output of an interconnected electric power source shall be connected as specified in 705.12(A), (B), (C), or (D).
(A) Supply Side. An electric power production source shall be permitted to be connected to the supply side of the service disconnecting means as permitted in 230.82(6). The sum of the ratings of all overcurrent devices connected to power production sources shall not exceed the rating of the service.

then here.

230.82 Equipment Connected to the Supply Side of Service Disconnect. Only the following equipment shall be permitted to be connected to the supply side of the service disconnecting means:

230.82(6)?Solar photovoltaic systems, fuel cell systems, or interconnected electric power production sources.

....

 

[shortcircuit2]

LEO2854's NEC Section Quote...

"230.82 Equipment Connected to the Supply Side of Service Disconnect. Only the following equipment shall be permitted to be connected to the supply side of the service disconnecting means:

230.82(6)?Solar photovoltaic systems, fuel cell systems, or interconnected electric power production sources."




Exactly...that's where I end up too. But 230.82(6) doesn't tell us the equipment has to be service rated, etc.

230.82(6) should say this...

230.86(6) Solar photovoltaic systems, fuel cell systems, wind electric systems, or interconnected power production sources, if provided with service equipment and installed in accordance with the requirements for service-entrance conductors.

 

[Cyanide02Z06]

Everyone is bring up the exact same things i've been racking my mind about.

By code....a DG system is not a "service"....only the utility can be a service.

But logically thinking.....If we're going to be the first point of disconnect after the transformer secondary......the gear should be service rated. Thoughts?

 

[petersonra]

Interesting. I wonder why one is allowed to connect these kind of things directly to the utility.

 

[ggunn]

Interesting. I wonder why one is allowed to connect these kind of things directly to the utility.

I don't know much about fuel cells, but why wouldn't they be allowed to interconnect the same as PV?

 

[Cyanide02Z06]

Fuel cells CAN connect in parallel to the utility.

 

[petersonra]

I don't know much about fuel cells, but why wouldn't they be allowed to interconnect the same as PV?

the question had was more along the lines of why are you allowed to do so.

isn't the whole idea of having a service point that it is a single point?

I do not see anything that specifically sasy these things would have to be grouped with the normal service switch.