full grounding/neutral bus

[jemsvcs]

Time and again I see service panels where the neutral and grounding busses are full...and by full I mean three or four grounding wires under the same terminal screw and two or three grounded wires under a single termianl screw (and sometimes mixed with grounding wires). Obviously as far as Code goes this is a big no no.

My two part question is: (1) can equipment grounding wires be spliced together in a service panel to make room for adding an additional circuit (since only one grounded wire can be under a single terminal screw) and (2) is there a better way short of replacing the entire panel to make more room for additional grounded wires (or clean-up the existing messy panel)?

 

[bphgravity]

Re: full grounding/neutral bus

Most panelboard enclosures have means for attaching additional equipment grounding terminal bars. If this is not possible or available for your enclosure type, doubling-up grounding conductors is permitted if the terminating connection is rated for multiple conductors. When all else fails, splicing and "pig-tailing" off to the terminal bar is acceptable if the groundign circuits remian effect and capable of carrying any fault imposes oto them.

 

[allenwayne]

Re: full grounding/neutral bus

Bryan I believe this is the first time I have ever heard the question of pigtailing the grounded conductors due to available openings.If this is done would we also have to pigtail the ungrounded conductors of these circuits or would the ungrounded conductors that are pigtailed have to be on seperate phases (their ungrounded conductor)
Also what would be the limit of how many ungrounded conductors can be pigtailed together and what rule of thumb would be used to figure out what the combined losd would bedoing this ?

 

[allenwayne]

Re: full grounding/neutral bus

edit (what the combined load be doing this )

 

[jemsvcs]

Re: full grounding/neutral bus

My original question is asking about pigtailing grounding conductors (not grounded conductors) in order to make room for a single grounded conductor under each terminal lug.

I am aware that some panels allow more than one grounding conductor under the same lug, but in the situation to which I am refering the neutral and grounding bars in the service panel are full as far as number of allowable terminations.

 

[allenwayne]

Re: full grounding/neutral bus

I misread original post.Grounding conductors allowed are as many as the manufactrer allows
under UL listing per lug.Now grounded conductors cut and dry 1 per lug....

 

[D.Rater]

Re: full grounding/neutral bus

The real question is given that code rquires 1 grounded wire per terminal why don't manufacturers provide longer bars?? Why for a 42 space panel must I buy and install additional terminals??

 

[paul]

Re: full grounding/neutral bus

Originally posted by D.Rater:
The real question is given that code rquires 1 grounded wire per terminal why don't manufacturers provide longer bars?? Why for a 42 space panel must I buy and install additional terminals??

Recently, they have done just this.

 

[allenwayne]

Re: full grounding/neutral bus

When youbuy a new truck does it come with a/c as a standard?? Same here leave the predrilled/tapped holes and offer a ground bar kit.Knowing especially on a split service there will be a ground bar kit ordered. nice profit maker huh.

 

[GeorgeB]

Re: full grounding/neutral bus

Originally posted by D.Rater:
The real question is given that code rquires 1 grounded wire per terminal why don't manufacturers provide longer bars?? Why for a 42 space panel must I buy and install additional terminals??

But for 230V loads, you don't require a grounded conductor. Now how many of those is questionable, but the electric water heater, if used, certainly. Ovens, ranges, dryers ... probably not if for nothing but the 115V lamps ... and motors?. Point being, 2 spaces used (usually) for each with no grounded conductor needed.