We lost a bid on a job last week on wiring a 15,000 sq ft funeral home. The reason we lost the job was because we priced the job as we would any other commercial job...using MC Cable, conduit, and metal outlet and junction boxes. The contractor that beat us out priced the job using Romex wire and plastic junctions. Now, we haven't done very much commercial work but we have done a few churches, hotels, and fast food restaurants. My understanding is that this funeral home would be considered a place of assembly as it has a rather large sanctuary in it and would therefore call for other methods of wiring besides romex. I am probably missing something here but Id like some clarification on the issue. Inspector says the building is type IV construction and that romex is ok. I just cant justify this. BTW...I am newly licensed as of August so I am still learning the ropes of everything!Thanks!
Funeral Home
- Thread starter kyled86
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Kyle it all depends on how the building/zoning department classifies the building. Worst case scenario is the NM would not be allowed only in the assembly area. The rest of the job can be NM if classified.
chris kennedy
Senior Member
- Location
- Miami Fla.
- Occupation
- 60 yr old tool twisting electrician
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
I guess the moral of the story would be to find this info out before you made the bid.
Kind of stinks to find out at this point.
This is where a good set of specs would be more than helpful.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
As per how the building zoning determines it. The place of assembly would have to be wired in another method allowed by 518. I thought I said that or were you just clarifying.
Cow
Senior Member
- Location
- Eastern Oregon
- Occupation
- Electrician
A 2 min. phone call to the inspector might of been the difference between winning and losing the bid. Ouch.
School of hard knocks...
School of hard knocks...
chris kennedy
Senior Member
- Location
- Miami Fla.
- Occupation
- 60 yr old tool twisting electrician
I thought I said that or were you just clarifying.
Just clarifying how the building dept or EE would determine what an 'Assembly Occupancy' is.
Dennis, have you seen the latest AARP mag.? Nice article about how dancing can improve your motor skills.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
I'm only wondering how do you bid a 15,000 sq ft building without any building specifications? Do they simply ask for the minimum allowed by code?
Fulthrotl
~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
- Occupation
- E
oops. however, it's not as bad as bidding it for romex, and finding out you
had to use conduit....
There were no plans or specs at all on the building. It was one of those where the owner just figures it out as he goes...didn't really want to get involved in it to begin with but nevertheless work is slow around here lately. The inspector calls it a TYPE IV construction. Keep in mind there are no plans or specs for this building whatsoever. I feel like the owner has the inspector in his pocket though and he is calling this a TYPE IV construction to be able to get away with building this project in a cheaper manner than normally would be required. I may be completely wrong about this but I had a bad feeling about it even after talking to the inspector so in a way I'm glad Im not involved with it.
No specs?!?!?
Start submitting RFIs.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Are you that old?
Yeah, I read it. I love my dancing but it wears me down. It is amazing how much energy you put out when you're dancing.If I'm given nothing more than a floor plan, it's time to call the owner and start asking questions. Lots of questions.
If they can't answer them, I tell them, "Well, I'll give you a ballpark figure. Somewhere between $25,000 and $45,0000 should cover it. Give me more details and I'll make the ballpark smaller."
CopperTone
Senior Member
- Location
- MetroWest, MA
winning a bid job with no prints is tough because there is a lot of interpretation going on. Sure big difference between romex and MC and methods which you could have asked the inspector or quoted both methods.
Another big difference is layout - you could have laid out the taj mahal because you thought thats what it needed and the other EC could have laid out a bare minimum with internet bought recessed lights and his price would be way lower than you. He simply bangs the owner hard with add ons and change orders.
Do this next time - ask the owner to give you the other detailed quote minus the price so you can quote the same thing and get a fair shot at coming close.
If I had to design the electrical, I probably would have signed a contract before to be paid for that. In my earlier years I layed out a whole job, service calcs, even drew a print and gave it to the owner with price - he gave all the info to another EC who of course beat my price and got the job. I never did that again. Be the other guy who simply quotes what is on the paper and change order away. I was so pissed about that job - but I learned a lot about quoting jobs and presenting my bids.
Most times the owner is simply too cheap to pay an architect or engineer to design or draw prints so they think the EC will do it for free - don't get sucked into that.
I've also learned to bid what it says - only - it keeps your number low - hit them hard with change orders where the prints and specs are wrong. Architects and engineers already got paid to design the prints so when they draw them wrong the EC certainly shouldn't be paying for the mistake and if you fix the mistake in your bid then you risk being high and not getting the job. Bid what it says.
Another big difference is layout - you could have laid out the taj mahal because you thought thats what it needed and the other EC could have laid out a bare minimum with internet bought recessed lights and his price would be way lower than you. He simply bangs the owner hard with add ons and change orders.
Do this next time - ask the owner to give you the other detailed quote minus the price so you can quote the same thing and get a fair shot at coming close.
If I had to design the electrical, I probably would have signed a contract before to be paid for that. In my earlier years I layed out a whole job, service calcs, even drew a print and gave it to the owner with price - he gave all the info to another EC who of course beat my price and got the job. I never did that again. Be the other guy who simply quotes what is on the paper and change order away. I was so pissed about that job - but I learned a lot about quoting jobs and presenting my bids.
Most times the owner is simply too cheap to pay an architect or engineer to design or draw prints so they think the EC will do it for free - don't get sucked into that.
I've also learned to bid what it says - only - it keeps your number low - hit them hard with change orders where the prints and specs are wrong. Architects and engineers already got paid to design the prints so when they draw them wrong the EC certainly shouldn't be paying for the mistake and if you fix the mistake in your bid then you risk being high and not getting the job. Bid what it says.
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Rewire
Senior Member
- Location
- Lake of the Ozarks
We just finished a small office building that had in the specs NMC no smaller than #12
- Status