Funeral Home

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220/221

Senior Member
Location
AZ
In my area, commercial is and has always been conduit. I didn't realize that it wasn't a NEC thing until I started reading the electrical message boards.

Y'all are crazy out there :rolleyes:
 
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ohm

Senior Member
Location
Birmingham, AL
480sparky said:
If I'm given nothing more than a floor plan, it's time to call the owner and start asking questions. Lots of questions.
If they can't answer them, I tell them, "Well, I'll give you a ballpark figure. Somewhere between $25,000 and $45,0000 should cover it. Give me more details and I'll make the ballpark smaller."
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Good answer 480Sparky, your bottom number will beat the pants off anybody and your high answer will make a profit. Put the responsibility back where it belongs. I've tried to engineer the job for those w/o a spec. or drawing and find they just turn around and use your stuff to shop the bid.
 
480sparky

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
ohm said:
Good answer 480Sparky, your bottom number will beat the pants off anybody and your high answer will make a profit. Put the responsibility back where it belongs. I've tried to engineer the job for those w/o a spec. or drawing and find they just turn around and use your stuff to shop the bid.
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If I have to start engineering electrical off of floor plans, it goes from 'offering a bid' to 'pay me to do so'.

I'm not going to design their system and let some hack win the bid on my dime.
 
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ohm

Senior Member
Location
Birmingham, AL
CopperTone said:
winning a bid job with no prints is tough because there is a lot of interpretation going on. Sure big difference between romex and MC and methods which you could have asked the inspector or quoted both methods.

Another big difference is layout - you could have laid out the taj mahal because you thought thats what it needed and the other EC could have laid out a bare minimum with internet bought recessed lights and his price would be way lower than you. He simply bangs the owner hard with add ons and change orders.

Do this next time - ask the owner to give you the other detailed quote minus the price so you can quote the same thing and get a fair shot at coming close.

If I had to design the electrical, I probably would have signed a contract before to be paid for that. In my earlier years I layed out a whole job, service calcs, even drew a print and gave it to the owner with price - he gave all the info to another EC who of course beat my price and got the job. I never did that again. Be the other guy who simply quotes what is on the paper and change order away. I was so pissed about that job - but I learned a lot about quoting jobs and presenting my bids.

Most times the owner is simply too cheap to pay an architect or engineer to design or draw prints so they think the EC will do it for free - don't get sucked into that.

I've also learned to bid what it says - only - it keeps your number low - hit them hard with change orders where the prints and specs are wrong. Architects and engineers already got paid to design the prints so when they draw them wrong the EC certainly shouldn't be paying for the mistake and if you fix the mistake in your bid then you risk being high and not getting the job. Bid what it says.
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You summed it up great Coppertone!
 
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benaround

Senior Member
Location
Arizona
kyled86 said:
There were no plans or specs at all on the building. It was one of those where the owner just figures it out as he goes...didn't really want to get involved in it to begin with but nevertheless work is slow around here lately. The inspector calls it a TYPE IV construction. Keep in mind there are no plans or specs for this building whatsoever. I feel like the owner has the inspector in his pocket though and he is calling this a TYPE IV construction to be able to get away with building this project in a cheaper manner than normally would be required. I may be completely wrong about this but I had a bad feeling about it even after talking to the inspector so in a way I'm glad Im not involved with it.
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Sometimes a job like that will put you 6 ft. under! :)
 
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eprice

Senior Member
Location
Utah
kyled86 said:
My understanding is that this funeral home would be considered a place of assembly as it has a rather large sanctuary in it and would therefore call for other methods of wiring besides romex. I am probably missing something here but Id like some clarification on the issue. Inspector says the building is type IV construction and that romex is ok. I just cant justify this. BTW...I am newly licensed as of August so I am still learning the ropes of everything!Thanks!
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Don't overlook 518.4(B). Just because it is a place of assembly doesn't automatically mean that NM is not allowed.
 
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ohm

Senior Member
Location
Birmingham, AL
eprice said:
Don't overlook 518.4(B). Just because it is a place of assembly doesn't automatically mean that NM is not allowed.
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True but in a building w/o drawings or specs. how in the world would the Building Dept. be able to determine a fire rating for individual rooms in time for an EC to bid the job?

It is such a nightmare our AHJ just declares the entire building a "Place of Assembly" and we don't worry about items such as washrooms & office space.

If the Owner and the AHJ has a deal going, there is no way a legitimate is going win this bid.
 
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kyled86

Member
Ohm...no I am in Georgia. But that statement you just made about the owner and the AHJ having a deal seems to be exactly what is going on here. I dont know how they figure the fire ratings and what not but I was told there were NO prints whatsoever. I may have been lied to though...its happened before haha
 
K

kyled86

Member
ohm said:
True but in a building w/o drawings or specs. how in the world would the Building Dept. be able to determine a fire rating for individual rooms in time for an EC to bid the job?

It is such a nightmare our AHJ just declares the entire building a "Place of Assembly" and we don't worry about items such as washrooms & office space.

If the Owner and the AHJ has a deal going, there is no way a legitimate is going win this bid.
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Ohm...no I am in Georgia. But that statement you just made about the owner and the AHJ having a deal seems to be exactly what is going on here. I dont know how they figure the fire ratings and what not but I was told there were NO prints whatsoever. I may have been lied to though...its happened before haha
 
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