Fuses or Breakers

[infinity]

That is an interesting take on it. I would not use more than a 15 amp overcurrent protective device but I hear ya. At our local association zoom meeting one of the members took it that way but I pooh-poohed it.

Doesn't Article 440 spell out specifically that the listed OCPD is the maximum size?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Doesn't Article 440 spell out specifically that the listed OCPD is the maximum size?

I am sure it does but I haven't looked for it. The problem is calling for Hacr and fuses as okay but only listing fuses. If we take fuses to mean overcurrent protective device then the theory of using breakers at a higher ampacity is out the window. If we take fuses to mean fuses only then breakers are again out the window

 

[electrofelon]

Couldn't they also ditch the "HACR"? I mean it's been what 35, 40 years now since all breakers are HACR?

 

[infinity]

Couldn't they also ditch the "HACR"? I mean it's been what 35, 40 years now since all breakers are HACR?

Yes they could. Just more evidence that the people making up these nameplates are clueless. Better yet just remove fuses from the type of protection required.

 

[Carultch]

Couldn't they also ditch the "HACR"? I mean it's been what 35, 40 years now since all breakers are HACR?

You could be doing a retrofit job for a home built in the 70's. The standard breaker you inherit from that decade may not carry the HACR rating. They have to put that on the product instructions, so you don't accidentally put it on an older breaker that doesn't carry this rating.

 

[TwoBlocked]

That is an interesting take on it. I would not use more than a 15 amp overcurrent protective device but I hear ya. At our local association zoom meeting one of the members took it that way but I pooh-poohed it.

Wasn't me, but sounds like a really sharp guy!

 

[electrofelon]

You could be doing a retrofit job for a home built in the 70's. The standard breaker you inherit from that decade may not carry the HACR rating. They have to put that on the product instructions, so you don't accidentally put it on an older breaker that doesn't carry this rating.

I suppose that is a possibility

 

[infinity]

You could be doing a retrofit job for a home built in the 70's. The standard breaker you inherit from that decade may not carry the HACR rating. They have to put that on the product instructions, so you don't accidentally put it on an older breaker that doesn't carry this rating.

I see your point but I would think that it would be incumbent upon the installer to certify if a 50 year old circuit breaker was the correct type with or without the words written on the nameplate. I'm guessing that it is still part of the equipment listing to mention HACR breakers. If it doesn't say HACR type then can the 50 year old breaker be used?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If it doesn't say HACR type then can the 50 year old breaker be used?

I would think not.

 

[infinity]

I would think not.

I looked through the NEC and couldn't find a requirement for HACR listed breakers.

 

[jim dungar]

I looked through the NEC and couldn't find a requirement for HACR listed breakers.

110.3
Per Listing requirements.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I thought I remembered the nec stating hacr at one time.

 

[infinity]

110.3
Per Listing requirements.

Would HACR then be required to be on the nameplate?

 

[wwhitney]

Would HACR then be required to be on the nameplate?

It's right there on the nameplate in the OP, "Approved for HACR breakers or time delay fuses." Is that not an instruction, "you may use a breaker, but it must be HACR. You may use a fuse, but it must be time delay"?

Cheers, Wayne

 

[infinity]

It's right there on the nameplate in the OP,

That wasn't the question in post #28. I asked what if HACR was not one the nameplate then could the 50 year old breaker from post #25 be used?

 

[wwhitney]

That wasn't the question in post #28. I asked what if HACR was not one the nameplate then could the 50 year old breaker from post #25 be used?

So e.g. take that nameplate, delete "Approved for HACR breakers or time delay fuses" and change "Max Fuse" to "Max OCPD"?

If such a unit couldn't be used with a non-HACR breaker due to some subtlety of UL 1995, I would view that as a deficiency of the nameplate labeling requirements in UL 1995. So I guess that's your question. I don't recall anything relevant from my last perusal of UL 1995.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[jim dungar]

Would HACR then be required to be on the nameplate?

For breakers not since the 90's.
The old 'special' HACR testing is now incorporated in the standard UL 489 procedures, so all Listed breakers can be labeled HACR.

UL no longer requires breaker to carry the HACR label, however some 'old timer' inspectors still want to see it.

 

[infinity]

Not since the 90's.
The old 'special' HACR testing is now incorporated in the standard UL 489 procedures, so all Listed breakers can be labeled HACR.

UL no longer requires breaker to carry the HACR label, however some 'old timer' inspectors still want to see it.

What about on the nameplate of an AC unit that allowed circuit breakers for protection?

 

[jim dungar]

What about on the nameplate of an AC unit that allowed circuit breakers for protection?

That would be part of that item's Listing requirements.
It is most likely on the label, because no one wants to take responsibility of changing 'what we have always done'.

 

[infinity]

I'm sure that it's written somewhere that an AC unit is required to use an HACR breaker but it's not always on the nameplate. Sorry for the blurry image it's an old photo taken with an old phone.