Garage recep. 2014 NEC

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kwired said:
.......Could probably use some clarification to help convey the intent of this new section.....





....The more I think about it the more I think it does need some additional clarification.
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It does not need more clarification, it needs to be tossed out of the code. It is a design issue, not a safety issue.

Can't the guys on this CMP find something to do? Golf? Fly fishing? Insect photography? Join an internet forum?
 
IIRC, the requirement is intended to facilitate electric vehicles, and they'd love it if each receptacle outlet were adjacent to each vehicle bay - but somehow the words written fall short of their expectations. It's almost worse when they ride the fence instead of just forcibly mandate what they really want.
 
ActionDave said:
It does not need more clarification, it needs to be tossed out of the code. It is a design issue, not a safety issue.

Can't the guys on this CMP find something to do? Golf? Fly fishing? Insect photography? Join an internet forum?
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:thumbsup:

You forgot "read a book" - that may prove useful later. :D
 
MasterTheNEC said:
FYI-

The requirement of 210.52(G)(1) simply says " At least one receptacle outlet shall be installed for each car space." Nothing says that it has to be installed within the "footprint" of that space. However, Due to the fact that originally the submittal was to remove the need for extension cords behind existing appliances and so on....no doubt someone will submit in the 2017 NEC to be within so many feet of the dedicated vehicle space. I am also sure the term " car" will be removed also...to "vehicle" space.

Just thoughts on it....;)
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So for now, I can place my two outlets for a two car garage in the basement right next to the panel:cool:
This is just like the sometimes asked question for wall switch locations, there are rooms that require a wall switch for lighting outlets, but NEC doesn't specify where the switch location is required, could be on a different floor on opposite end of the house.

ActionDave said:
It does not need more clarification, it needs to be tossed out of the code. It is a design issue, not a safety issue.

Can't the guys on this CMP find something to do? Golf? Fly fishing? Insect photography? Join an internet forum?
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If we got rid of all sections that needed to be removed because of this reason the NEC would go from a book to a pamphlet:)
 
kwired said:
So for now, I can place my two outlets for a two car garage in the basement right next to the panel:cool:
This is just like the sometimes asked question for wall switch locations, there are rooms that require a wall switch for lighting outlets, but NEC doesn't specify where the switch location is required, could be on a different floor on opposite end of the house.

If we got rid of all sections that needed to be removed because of this reason the NEC would go from a book to a pamphlet:)
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Indeed...Indeed....but I am more than sure someone will make a proposal to clarify the intended location "specific" to this "receptacle outlet" for each "vehicle" space. At the same time they change "Car" to "Vehicle"..lol
 
The Irony of this discussion of something intended to be simple in design -- now argued to define out of simple design -- creating a need for code adjustment which all wonder why -- got two weeks of hunting/R&R coming up to contemplate nothing :D
 
IMO it doesnt state much more than car space so it shouldnt matter if theres 3 bays or 1 the entire area is "car space" just my 2 cents. Good question.
 
How many out there are reading we now require a garage recept branch circuit for recepts inside the garage that cannot feed the garage door opener or any other recepts required for specific equipment.
 
mwm1752 said:
How many out there are reading we now require a garage recept branch circuit for recepts inside the garage that cannot feed the garage door opener or any other recepts required for specific equipment.
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Never gave this one any thought before, but as it is written I'd say that is true. If the CMP didn't intend to include a garage door opener in this rule then they need to word it differently.
 
mwm1752 said:
How many out there are reading we now require a garage recept branch circuit for recepts inside the garage that cannot feed the garage door opener or any other recepts required for specific equipment.
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kwired said:
Never gave this one any thought before, but as it is written I'd say that is true. If the CMP didn't intend to include a garage door opener in this rule then they need to word it differently.
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As written, a receptacle near and for a garage door opener counts as one receptacle outlet... right? ;)

And nothing says we have to run a separate branch circuit for the required outlets. They can be on the same circuit, even the same receptacle outlet, as specific equipment.

I think the basic intent is to not have a garage with no receptacle outlets whatsoever.
 
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Smart $ said:
As written, a receptacle near and for a garage door opener counts as one receptacle outlet... right? ;)

And nothing says we have to run a separate branch circuit for the required outlets. They can be on the same circuit, even the same receptacle outlet, as specific equipment.

I think the basic intent is to not have a garage with no receptacle outlets whatsoever.
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But a garage door opener is "specific equipment" and in a dwelling is generally cord and plug connected. 210.52(G) says "These receptacles shall be in addition to receptacles required for specific equipment."
 
mwm1752 said:
How many out there are reading we now require a garage recept branch circuit for recepts inside the garage that cannot feed the garage door opener or any other recepts required for specific equipment.
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Not the case. You can supply ANY receptacle, including lighting outlets and receptacle(s) for the door opener(s) within the garage with the same circuit. You can't have that circuit leave the garage. One exception to this though is any receptacle that you install specifically for an EV charging would require a dedicated circuit per the new 210.17.

In my view this is yet another code change that is not well thought out.
 
texie said:
Not the case. You can supply ANY receptacle, including lighting outlets and receptacle(s) for the door opener(s) within the garage with the same circuit. You can't have that circuit leave the garage. One exception to this though is any receptacle that you install specifically for an EV charging would require a dedicated circuit per the new 210.17.

In my view this is yet another code change that is not well thought out.
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After more careful reading I take back what I said before. It doesn't say additional circuits need added it just requires at least one additional receptacle when specific equipment requiring a receptacle is present. Now if the GDO has a rating of more then 50% of the branch circuit rating...
 
kwired said:
After more careful reading I take back what I said before. It doesn't say additional circuits need added it just requires at least one additional receptacle when specific equipment requiring a receptacle is present. Now if the GDO has a rating of more then 50% of the branch circuit rating...
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In that case you'd need a separate branch circuit, and the GDO receptacle would not count... but evaluating from a strict HP to watts conversion, it would have to be a 1.2HP GDO. :blink:
 
iwire said:
Some of us like our garage door to open very quickly. :cool:
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On the serious side, even 1.2HP GDO may not do it. A quick check of product power requirements noted on shopping websites only have 1/2 and 3/4 HP GDO's drawing 60 to 120 watts, whereas we'd be looking at over 900VA to be over 50% on a 15A 120V circuit.
 
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