Garbage Disposal

[JohnE]

I met with an inspector today for a rough inspection and here was his take on a garbage disposal wired on and individual 15 amp branch circuit and a receptacle: "The circuit has to be 20 amps because it is a receptacle in a kitchen." When I explained that I felt otherwise, he felt that "if it were hardwired it would be legal, but not with a receptacle." He did pass it, though after a brief conversation and some explaining by me. (we didn't actually have to break out the code book) I don't need to cite the code articles of why this is legal, just thought that his was an interesting point of view on his part. FWIW, he's been the inspector for way over 20 years.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Garbage Disposal

Wow. At least he didn't force his hand.

Did he conclude he was mistaken, or did he "do you a favor"?

 

[william runkle]

Re: Garbage Disposal

Seeing you are also an inspector then to not go any farther then to cite the violation. Not cited no violation. Hope you will do that on your inspections.

 

[GG]

Re: Garbage Disposal

Well with his reasoning I would think he would have been more concerned with GFCI protection than just a 20 amp circuit. I mean we are in a kitchen right. Someone may climb under the sink to plug in a hair dryer and then if it falls in the sink thats full of water becasue they are defrosting tonights dinner..... well I think you see the need for GFCI protection for a garbage disposal receptacle. Is the inspector sure that 20 amps is enough, what if the new HO wants to install a 5 HP garbage disposal. :roll:

 

[JohnE]

Re: Garbage Disposal

Originally posted by georgestolz:
Wow. At least he didn't force his hand.

Did he conclude he was mistaken, or did he "do you a favor"?

He didn't explain, so I didn't push it.

 

[jwelectric]

Re: Garbage Disposal

What would he do if he saw a receptacle installed in accordance with 210.52 (B)(1) Exception No. 2?

How would he recommend the light fixture be wired?

How would he explain 210.52 (C)?

Is it possible that this man (person) has not learned anything in twenty years?

 

[JohnE]

Re: Garbage Disposal

Originally posted by william runkle:
Seeing you are also an inspector then to not go any farther then to cite the violation. Not cited no violation. Hope you will do that on your inspections.

If I turn down an inspection, I generally call and explain specifically what is wrong. I only cite specific articles if the converation goes in that drection. I will cite the articles if the conversation progresses. I find that most times, the electricians are not surprised of the violations. I'll try to sign off on a rough if the violation is something that can be checked on finish.

In our state, we are supposed to notify the electrician of all violations in writing. Likewise, they are supposed to request inspections in writing. Generally we only follow that protocol in problem situations.

 

[JohnE]

Re: Garbage Disposal

Originally posted by jwelectric:
What would he do if he saw a receptacle installed in accordance with 210.52 (B)(1) Exception No. 2?

How would he recommend the light fixture be wired?

How would he explain 210.52 (C)?

Is it possible that this man (person) has not learned anything in twenty years?

This is why I thought it may be an interesting post. I think he's probable been inspector for more like 30+ years, but I'm sure on the 20+. Makes me wonder what other guys are doing in his jurisdiction. By the way, he was very pleasant, asked about a mutual friend, etc.

Something else that he said just came to mind. He said that he wants to see the empty conduit installed on an underground service prior to conductors being pulled since it is a raceway wiring method. Sounds good to me. Then said that he will require holes to be drilled into raceway if he feels that they are subject to water entering them. Huh? At least I get his logic on that one, just do not agree that that is the right way to permit a raceway to drain if moisture may enter.

 

[allenwayne]

Re: Garbage Disposal

In our state, we are supposed to notify the electrician of all violations in writing. Likewise, they are supposed to request inspections in writing. Generally we only follow that protocol in problem situations

Ok this errie I had this same conversation with an inspector a couple of months ago.This isn`t ray is it

 

[JohnE]

Re: Garbage Disposal

Did you have to notify ray in writing?

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Garbage Disposal

Originally posted by j_erickson:
He said that he wants to see the empty conduit installed on an underground service prior to conductors being pulled since it is a raceway wiring method. Sounds good to me.

Can you elaborate on this? I'm not clear on what you're saying.

 

[charlie b]

Re: Garbage Disposal

Originally posted by j_erickson:"The circuit has to be 20 amps because it is a receptacle in a kitchen." When I explained that I felt otherwise, he felt that "if it were hardwired it would be legal, but not with a receptacle."

Am I missing something? This should be simple. The receptacle is not serving the countertop. Therefore, it need not follow the rules for SA circuits (i.e., 210.52(B)(1)). Therefore, a 15 amp receptacle is acceptable. Isn't that right?

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: Garbage Disposal

This is what you get from an inspector with 20 years experience? What a shame. Drill holes in a conduit because water might enter them? Will you have to put an "Exit only" sign on the holes so that the water knows that it can only leave the conduit and not enter the conduit through these holes? 20 amp wiring only in the kitchen? Wrong again. I'd throw him for a loop next time and put the disposal on a lighting circuit. Let him cite the violation there. For my own curiosity. Where is the info that says a conduit must be inspected before wires are pulled into it?

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: Garbage Disposal

The more I think about it the more I realize this state is loaded with inspectors that may not even be competent to do electrical work never mind inspect mine. Sure there are some good ones but they are few and far between.

 

[JohnE]

Re: Garbage Disposal

Originally posted by georgestolz:

Originally posted by j_erickson:
He said that he wants to see the empty conduit installed on an underground service prior to conductors being pulled since it is a raceway wiring method. Sounds good to me.

Can you elaborate on this? I'm not clear on what you're saying.

What I'm saying is that on a typical underground service here in MA excavator digs trench and sands the bottom to protect from rocks. Then we install underground raceway (usually pvc for residential), install service, and pull underground. Excavator then lays about a foot of sand on top of pipe, and we lay caution tape. Then we get our trench inspection, along with service inspection. (Some guys just lay conduit and pull wire and get trench inspection and do service later) Then after inspection, excavator completes backfilling of trench.

My point, and after reading it I realize that I wasn't clear, is that this inspector wants to see the conduit before wires are pulled so that he can decide if holes or notches will be required in the conduit in order for water to drain (if he feels water will enter conduit from transformer base or handhole). He said that if wires are already pulled, then drilling the holes could damage the wires.

We have a few towns which require trench inspection prior to wires being pulled. They cite 300.18 That's ok. I was just relaying his reasoning on inspecting trench prior to pulling conductors. Not because of 300.18, but as stated above.

Thanks,

John

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: Garbage Disposal

John, there is no chance of an inspector getting me to drill holes or cut notches in an underground conduit for water to drain.

 

[iwire]

Re: Garbage Disposal

Scott I agree with you on the wire pulling issue.

However putting drains in is a pretty typical requirement (job specifications) for us.

Some even talk about a certain pitch that the conduit must slope.

In our area as I am sure you have noticed underground conduits fill with water which IMO is no big deal, what is a big deal is when they flow into the electrical equipment.

I just recently had to add drains to a 1,200 amp service to the owners house as water was flowing down hill from the transformer into the service disconnect.

[ August 30, 2005, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]

 

[roger]

Re: Garbage Disposal

Scott, on the same page as Bob,I have also installed underground raceways with "T" condulets at the lowest point for the sole purpose of drainage.


Roger

 

[pierre]

Re: Garbage Disposal

From Bob

"I just recently had to add drains to a 1,200 amp service to the owners house as water was flowing down hill from the transformer into the service disconnect."

What strikes me in this post is how casually a 1200 amp service to a dwelling is mentioned. It is amazing today how large some of the homes and services to them are.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Garbage Disposal

Originally posted by j_erickson:
My point, and after reading it I realize that I wasn't clear, is that this inspector wants to see the conduit before wires are pulled so that he can decide if holes or notches will be required in the conduit in order for water to drain (if he feels water will enter conduit from transformer base or handhole). He said that if wires are already pulled, then drilling the holes could damage the wires.

Learn something new every day!

Not much of a problem out here.