Gas and water pipe bonding

[OK Sparky 93]

For ease of installation; gas main is several feet from service, and nearest visible accessible as far as I am concerned is at the water heater about 30’ away in garage.

Since it is bonding, I could or shall I say would it be proper to bond to the gas line near service. Then go to water heater and bond the gas and the water together. Will this satisfy the requirements of 250.104?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The gas may not need bonding unless there is csst involved in the piping. Is the water line metallic? Does the water pipe connect to a metallic piping underground coming in from the street?

 

[augie47]

IMO, No. 250.104(A)(1) lists the requirements for bonding the water line and the gas piping (not being an electrode) is not included.

 

[OK Sparky 93]

IMO, No. 250.104(A)(1) lists the requirements for bonding the water line and the gas piping (not being an electrode) is not included.

So based that (200 amp service) I would to run a #4 to the nearest accessible metal water pipe and then if anyone AHJ required gas pipe to be bonded by other than an EGC then I could jump off of the water pipe to the gas pipe at the water heater?…

 

[infinity]

So based that (200 amp service) I would to run a #4 to the nearest accessible metal water pipe and then if anyone AHJ required gas pipe to be bonded by other than an EGC then I could jump off of the water pipe to the gas pipe at the water heater?…

Is the water pipe an electrode? If so it would require the GEC connection to be within 5' of where it enters the structure.

 

[LarryFine]

The appliance end of CSST is bonded by the EGC, which is why nearby lightning strikes can drive current through the CSST by energizing the solid piping connected to the meter end. Bonding the latter to the service EGC/grounding bus effectively bonds both ends of the CSST together, eliminating that current.

 

[OK Sparky 93]

250.53 D. My understanding is that just because it is there does not mean that it has to be used.

My understanding Is that I have several options for the GE system.

If I had building steelI would use it is my main electrode and the supplement with a ground rod.

On a residence, I am just going to drive 2 grounds. This satisfies 250.53.

Bonding 250.104 A 1 does say that the water pipe must be bonded. If it is pex, then obviously not.

Now here in OKC, we have been required to bond the gas pipe and according to Mike H the mechanical code requires the gas to be bonded with a #6.

Since the 250.104A1 would require the water pipe to be bonded with a number, could I just bind the gas with the #4 since it is closest to the service and at the other end where the water heater is with 3 pipe clamps to cover the hot side install a #4 jumper from the gas to the water at the water heater?

 

[OK Sparky 93]

I understand if it is there, sometimes it isn’t, that the EGC takes care of the gas according to 250.104 B (1)

 

[Dennis Alwon]

250.53 D. My understanding is that just because it is there does not mean that it has to be used.

My understanding Is that I have several options for the GE system.

If I had building steelI would use it is my main electrode and the supplement with a ground rod.

On a residence, I am just going to drive 2 grounds. This satisfies 250.53.

Bonding 250.104 A 1 does say that the water pipe must be bonded. If it is pex, then obviously not.

Now here in OKC, we have been required to bond the gas pipe and according to Mike H the mechanical code requires the gas to be bonded with a #6.

Since the 250.104A1 would require the water pipe to be bonded with a number, could I just bind the gas with the #4 since it is closest to the service and at the other end where the water heater is with 3 pipe clamps to cover the hot side install a #4 jumper from the gas to the water at the water heater?

Sure assuming you have a 200 amp service

 

[Dennis Alwon]

You still haven't answered a few questions which may change my response.

 

[OK Sparky 93]

Sure assuming you have a 200 amp service

I thought stated in one post a 200 amp

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I thought stated in one post a 200 amp

Yes I saw that just wanted to be clear. You aren't the only ones reading these posts so I wanted to make sure it was understood--#4 for 200 amp...usually unless you ran some huge service conductors.

 

[infinity]

Bonding 250.104 A 1 does say that the water pipe must be bonded. If it is pex, then obviously not

You still didn't say if the water pipe qualifed as an electrode.

 

[OK Sparky 93]

The gas may not need bonding unless there is csst involved in the piping. Is the water line metallic? Does the water pipe connect to a metallic piping underground coming in from the street?

Gas is black except at maybe the stove and and water heater.

Assume the water could be either way. But unless it had been replaced it is probably copper from the street. I am not using this as an electrode, and do not believe unless the AHJ requires I am not required to use it as an electrode.

But it does have to be bonded. Based on the bonding requirements, would it suffice to just bond the nearest gas pipe, and at the other end maybe 30’ jump of your the water?

 

[augie47]

250.53 D. My understanding is that just because it is there does not mean that it has to be used.

My understanding Is that I have several options for the GE system.

If I had building steelI would use it is my main electrode and the supplement with a ground rod.

On a residence, I am just going to drive 2 grounds. This satisfies 250.53.

Bonding 250.104 A 1 does say that the water pipe must be bonded. If it is pex, then obviously not.

Now here in OKC, we have been required to bond the gas pipe and according to Mike H the mechanical code requires the gas to be bonded with a #6.

Since the 250.104A1 would require the water pipe to be bonded with a number, could I just bind the gas with the #4 since it is closest to the service and at the other end where the water heater is with 3 pipe clamps to cover the hot side install a #4 jumper from the gas to the water at the water heater?

I still contend that does not meet 250.104(A)(1):
(1) General. Metal water piping system(s) installed in or attached to a building or structure shall be bonded to any of the following:
(1) Service equipment enclosure
(2) Grounded conductor at the service
(3) Grounding electrode conductor if of sufficient size
(4) One or more grounding electrodes used, if the grounding electrode conductor or bonding jumper to the grounding electrode is of sufficient size

Bonding the water to the gas is not listed as the gas piping is not a (1)-(4) allowable point.

 

[OK Sparky 93]

You still didn't say if the water pipe qualifed as an electrode.

It may or may not could be used as an electrode, but I do not see that it has to be used as electrode. I stated that early

I still contend that does not meet 250.104(A)(1):
(1) General. Metal water piping system(s) installed in or attached to a building or structure shall be bonded to any of the following:
(1) Service equipment enclosure
(2) Grounded conductor at the service
(3) Grounding electrode conductor if of sufficient size
(4) One or more grounding electrodes used, if the grounding electrode conductor or bonding jumper to the grounding electrode is of sufficient size

Bonding the water to the gas is not listed as the gas piping is not a (1)-(4) allowable point.

One could just hope it to be.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Gas is black except at maybe the stove and and water heater.

Assume the water could be either way. But unless it had been replaced it is probably copper from the street. I am not using this as an electrode, and do not believe unless the AHJ requires I am not required to use it as an electrode.

But it does have to be bonded. Based on the bonding requirements, would it suffice to just bond the nearest gas pipe, and at the other end maybe 30’ jump of your the water?

If the water pipe is an electrode you must use it and bond within 5' of where it enters the building

 

[LarryFine]

Gas is black except at maybe the stove and and water heater.

Black pipe stub-ups at appliances does not necessarily exclude CSST.

To a plumber, CSST is like flex to us, easier and faster than conduit.

 

[tortuga]

It may or may not could be used as an electrode, but I do not see that it has to be used as electrode. I stated that early

See 250.50 all grounding electrodes that are present need to be connected to the grounding electrode system:

250.50 Grounding Electrode System. All grounding electrodes
as described in 250.52(A)(1) through (A)(7) that are present at
each building or structure served shall be bonded together to form
the grounding electrode system.

I also agree with Augi than you cannot use gas pipe as a bonding conductor (to get to your water pipe). See 250.102

 

[hbiss]

Assume the water could be either way. But unless it had been replaced it is probably copper from the street. I am not using this as an electrode, and do not believe unless the AHJ requires I am not required to use it as an electrode.

You ARE required to use it as an electrode per the NEC together with the two ground rods or an ufer.

-Hal