gas/electric range
- Thread starter wyatt
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
Re: gas/electric range
40 amps is safe. If it gets traded out some day, they're covered. Since it pulls a hair over 22 amps at 240, you're okay with a 30.
I'd do 50.
40 amps is safe. If it gets traded out some day, they're covered. Since it pulls a hair over 22 amps at 240, you're okay with a 30.
I'd do 50.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: gas/electric range
We do 50 as a standard but install receptacle and breaker according to load. This way at least the wire is ran.
We do 50 as a standard but install receptacle and breaker according to load. This way at least the wire is ran.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: gas/electric range
Vote # 3 for 50 ,easier to down size breaker than have to upsize conductor Same with A/H/U`S 5 KW it was always fine to use 10/2,that was ubtil Trane came out with 5 kw units that had a max breaker size of 32 amps
Vote # 3 for 50
,easier to down size breaker than have to upsize conductor Same with A/H/U`S 5 KW it was always fine to use 10/2,that was ubtil Trane came out with 5 kw units that had a max breaker size of 32 amps 
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: gas/electric range
Whatever the load is. If only 30 is required then 30 it is. 10/3 is much easier and cheaper to install.
[ March 24, 2005, 06:59 AM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]
Whatever the load is. If only 30 is required then 30 it is. 10/3 is much easier and cheaper to install.
[ March 24, 2005, 06:59 AM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: gas/electric range
Wait till you get bit by that train of thought
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: gas/electric range
Originally posted by allenwayne:
Up until then all 5 kw a/h/u`s were wired with 10/2.about 1/2 way through the project the mechanical contractor changed the model a/h/u they were using
Re: gas/electric range
if I understsnd my code right (422.11 a 3) 150% is 40 the most I can size the braker to.I'm not sure I would rather run a 40amp wire with range plug and be done with it the GC's here will tell you one thing and some thing elese will show up. Here we don't do that many house but my boss trys to run the shop like a big one where every wire nut counts.
[ March 26, 2005, 07:10 AM: Message edited by: wyatt ]
if I understsnd my code right (422.11 a 3) 150% is 40 the most I can size the braker to.I'm not sure I would rather run a 40amp wire with range plug and be done with it the GC's here will tell you one thing and some thing elese will show up. Here we don't do that many house but my boss trys to run the shop like a big one where every wire nut counts.
[ March 26, 2005, 07:10 AM: Message edited by: wyatt ]
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: gas/electric range
Been bit a few times just like Allen has.Bob it's not the same game here as up north.Yes full specs would be nice but you will not get them here.Demand them and you simply will not even bid on the job.Watch out for them como ovens with micro and convection as well as regular oven.
Been bit a few times just like Allen has.Bob it's not the same game here as up north.Yes full specs would be nice but you will not get them here.Demand them and you simply will not even bid on the job.Watch out for them como ovens with micro and convection as well as regular oven.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: gas/electric range
Is business that different a few states south?
How many companies can actually bid the same amount of work as Allen's employer? This should mean Allen's employer should have some influence.
[ March 26, 2005, 07:58 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]
Many jobs up here do not have full specifications. That is why you write a detailed 'scope of work' or put 'qualifications' into the contract. As Allen said we are not talking small change when doing so many jobs. You got to cover yourself.
Is business that different a few states south?
How many companies can actually bid the same amount of work as Allen's employer? This should mean Allen's employer should have some influence.
[ March 26, 2005, 07:58 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: gas/electric range
Bob, down here often the GC has his own contract and you either sign it or don't get the job.And yes its one sided all for the GC.I would much rather wire with a set of specs than try out guessing them.Yes it is a lot of money to oversize wire when not needed.But mis judge once and see what it cost.Allens company is likely beating most other companies here and might be getting to use there own contract.
Bob, down here often the GC has his own contract and you either sign it or don't get the job.And yes its one sided all for the GC.I would much rather wire with a set of specs than try out guessing them.Yes it is a lot of money to oversize wire when not needed.But mis judge once and see what it cost.Allens company is likely beating most other companies here and might be getting to use there own contract.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: gas/electric range
Bob
Do you ever look at the glass as half full?
Bob
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: gas/electric range
Moving up north is not an option.Have other buisness ventures that are starting to pay off and will be out of wiring in a few years.My glass is always half full,i want a full one
Have enjoyed wiring a lot more this last last year now that i only do commercial work.I know i don't often paint a pretty picture of electrical work down here.Maybe if you tried working here you would understand,pay has not raised in 15 years.And you will think your in another country all day with all the spanish speaking workers.Talked to the AC man on friday he just moved here from Michigan, he says the pay is lot better up there but no work.You can not judge Florida by living up north.
Moving up north is not an option.Have other buisness ventures that are starting to pay off and will be out of wiring in a few years.My glass is always half full,i want a full one
Have enjoyed wiring a lot more this last last year now that i only do commercial work.I know i don't often paint a pretty picture of electrical work down here.Maybe if you tried working here you would understand,pay has not raised in 15 years.And you will think your in another country all day with all the spanish speaking workers.Talked to the AC man on friday he just moved here from Michigan, he says the pay is lot better up there but no work.You can not judge Florida by living up north.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: gas/electric range
Allen, that is a poor argument. If you oversize your wiring all the time "just in case" you are wasting money.
Why would I want to always run #6 or #8 when all that is need is #10?
If someone changes specs with out telling anyone it's not my problem. Sure I'll redo whatever I have to the meet the new specs but someone will be paying me again. As Bob said I make more money.
If your company paid for the mechanical contractors change without a challenge than I guess that is their choice. I sure as hell wouldn't.
Allen, that is a poor argument. If you oversize your wiring all the time "just in case" you are wasting money.
Why would I want to always run #6 or #8 when all that is need is #10?
If someone changes specs with out telling anyone it's not my problem. Sure I'll redo whatever I have to the meet the new specs but someone will be paying me again. As Bob said I make more money.
If your company paid for the mechanical contractors change without a challenge than I guess that is their choice. I sure as hell wouldn't.
Re: gas/electric range
Jim,
My brother works south of Tampa and what he says reiterates what Bryan has said in the past. They don't seem to be miserable like you Tampa guys are.
Roger
[ March 26, 2005, 10:58 AM: Message edited by: roger ]
Jim,
I can, and if you look hard enough there are decent EC's in FL paying decent wages, you may have to get out of Tampa to find them. As far as job rules, under AIA governed jobs, the contract rules (division 16 sometimes 17) are the same in the north or the south.
My brother works south of Tampa and what he says reiterates what Bryan has said in the past. They don't seem to be miserable like you Tampa guys are.
Roger
[ March 26, 2005, 10:58 AM: Message edited by: roger ]
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: gas/electric range
The problem is the specs usually only say 5 KW air handler or 3 ton AC.They seldom say model #---
You assume that 5 KW means 30 amp max.Assume is a bad word
[ March 26, 2005, 11:01 AM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
The problem is the specs usually only say 5 KW air handler or 3 ton AC.They seldom say model #---
You assume that 5 KW means 30 amp max.Assume is a bad word
[ March 26, 2005, 11:01 AM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: gas/electric range
Yes on a individual basis it would be cheaper to wire with #10 when required and then there is the other side of the fence Time is $ and $ is time
Yes on a individual basis it would be cheaper to wire with #10 when required and then there is the other side of the fence
Time is $ and $ is timehurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: gas/electric range
Allen Don't you mean 10/3, 8/3, 6/3....
Most ovens/ranges require a neutral?
Unless your talking about the AC/air handler?
[ March 27, 2005, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
Allen Don't you mean 10/3, 8/3, 6/3....
Most ovens/ranges require a neutral?
Unless your talking about the AC/air handler?
[ March 27, 2005, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: gas/electric range
Originally posted by allenwayne:
With buying power we can but 6/2 almost as cheap as alot of small contractors get 10/2 for
That said the company is a $140 million a year company. We still give little away, we will not put in larger wire 'just in case'.
But we have more time to ask questions, and if the questions are not answered we can recover lost money for that too.
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: gas/electric range
Originally posted by allenwayne:
Allen, I don't understand this. Is there anyone with an ounce of common sense there?Wait till you get bit by that train of thought
If there are such huge questions as to what the future loads will be, why not run 3/4" or 1" smurf tube and pull conductors later? This isn't rocket science after all.
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