GC tells you he pulled a permit

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mdshunk said:
This is how I work things, just for general information...

If the permit is not on display, like it is required to be, I ask the GC this... "Can I get the permit number from you for my files and my insurance man"?

For the benefit of others who operate outside of PA and don't quite get what we're talking about: Most jurisdictions don't have plumbing and electrical permits. If a project is large enough, that triggers the need for a building permit, which will cover the plumbing, electrical, HVAC, etc for the whole project. Everything, in that case, gets inspected. This is a permit that is pulled by either the building owner or the GC. It is, in fact, impossible for an EC to pull an "electrical only" permit in jurisdictions without permits and inspections. The only permit you'll ever see in those jurisdictions is the main building permit

This basement remodel should have had a building permit. The EC cannot get in trouble for wiring without a permit, since there was no permit for him to pull. The EC did not do the general construction work that triggered the permit in the first place. The EC can legally rewire that whole house without a permit if he wants to, but the minute you start doing structural things, that is what triggers the building permit, and the requisite inspections of the electrical, etc.
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So If I understand this right. If nothing was done to the basement that was structural and just framing nonbearing walls and drop ceilings etc then a wiring permit was not needed anyway yes?
Also cause I'm curious what about all the electrical projects in these jurisdictions that don't require other trades like services, rewires, lighting jobs wiring of machines etc. They don't get inspected?
 
teco said:
Also cause I'm curious what about all the electrical projects in these jurisdictions that don't require other trades like services, rewires, lighting jobs wiring of machines etc. They don't get inspected?
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That is 100% true. In a jurisdiction with no additional permit requirements of their own, you can wire till your heart's content without the need for a permit or inspections. Services are different. The PoCo needs an inspection and the accompanying cut-in card before they'll tap back up.
 
mdshunk said:
Couldn't possibly be because the GC met him at his truck to pay the inspection fee for that trip out?

I think you're talking about the fabled payoff that doesn't really happen in real life anymore.
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It must be different in your part of Pa, in the area i work we file for the permit not the GC, and we met the inspector on site.
 
teco said:
So If I understand this right. If nothing was done to the basement that was structural and just framing nonbearing walls and drop ceilings etc then a wiring permit was not needed anyway yes?
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No.. I don't' really want to get into this too heavily because it's really not electrical, but anything that involves structural changes or a change of egress triggers a building permit. In the case of the basement remodel, adding partitions, even though they're likely non-bearing, changes the egress from the basement and will trigger the need for a permit. This is the condensed version, mind you. Basically, touch wood, and the permit process starts. On a recent otherwise cosmetic remodel, the contractor was required to pull a permit because he had to remove and replace 2 studs to get the tub/shower unit in, and widen the bathroom doorway from 32" to 36". I could have wired that whole house without a permit, otherwise. Crazy, eh?
 
satcom said:
It must be different in your part of Pa, in the area i work we file for the permit not the GC, and we met the inspector on site.
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You're talking about the electrical permit, no doubt? Same for me, if I'm working in a jurisdiction where I'm required to pull a seperate electrical permit. I covered that already. My comments were mostly aimed at the majority of the state where this is not true.
 
mdshunk said:
That is 100% true. In a jurisdiction with no additional permit requirements of their own, you can wire till your heart's content without the need for a permit or inspections. Services are different. The PoCo needs an inspection and the accompanying cut-in card before they'll tap back up.
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Wow. Here in Mass they want your money if you installing an outlet But I gotta say with some of the work I see around I'm kinda glad they do. I guess my bigest worry would be wondering how many guys are running around armed with their Home Depot book stealing the work from the real companies.
 
So, am I hearing that in other states, you have to pull a permit for any electrical work? Service calls no? Adding an outlet for the new wall TV? They have to get everything inspected? Where I am in PA, it follows as Marc described, Services you have to pull a permit
 
SiddMartin said:
So, am I hearing that in other states, you have to pull a permit for any electrical work? Service calls no? Adding an outlet for the new wall TV? They have to get everything inspected? Where I am in PA, it follows as Marc described, Services you have to pull a permit
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You have to be carefull some townships outside to city license areas, have local requlations, always best to check, otherwise it's wild west, your pizza delivery guy can wiire your kitchen remodel, it's funny, because right next to Pa is Jersey with some of the toughest construction laws and state licensing with even tougher requlation and continuing education for the licensed holders. Different worlds just a toll bridge away.
 
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satcom said:
You have to be carefull some townships outside to city license areas, have local requlations, always best to check, otherwise it's wild west, your pizza delivery guy can wiire your kitchen remodel.
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You are absolutely correct. PA is weird. Really weird. I pity an out of state guy who tries to figure it out. That said, you can certainly call for an inspection, even if none is required. I quite often do. CYA. The inspection agencies are happy to take a couple bucks.
 
220/221 said:
Permits by others is on most of our contracts.
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Can anyone, other than a licensed electrician, pull an electrical permit in your state? Or, do they just record the electrician for the project on the building permit when the building permit is pulled?
 
Electrical permits required for: New Homes, Remodel, Service Upgrades, Rewires or repairs (such as from a fire), Basements, Repairs to service (per POCO).

No permits required for adding receptacles, changing out lights or small items inside or outside a home.
 
Permits are required for all electrical wiring in Massachusetts. when installing outlets and other small jobs most don't do it unless ask to by the customer. Some towns will give a homeowners permit only to the owner but I know a lot of inspectors that won't give them out. As far as I know you still can't pull a permit in New Hampshire without a master license. I've let my N.H. masters expire because I never work there anymore so now I cannot pull a permit there. Commercial and industrial plants in MA have to renew their yearly permits every year for their in house people to work. I never work for G.C.s or builders but if we did we have to pull the permits for everything electrical they have nothing to do with it.
 
I pull my own permit for electrical. If the GC hasn't gotten his, then it will come back to haunt him at my rough inspection.

I've lost count of the times I've had an inspector tell me, "Yep, electrical looks good. Now we'll just shut the job down until the builder steps up to the plate...."
 
480sparky said:
I pull my own permit for electrical. If the GC hasn't gotten his, then it will come back to haunt him at my rough inspection.

I've lost count of the times I've had an inspector tell me, "Yep, electrical looks good. Now we'll just shut the job down until the builder steps up to the plate...."
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Wow Sparky,
Same thing here. Seen the electrical inspector get on his cell and call the building inspector and say come on down.
 
teco said:
Wow Sparky,
Same thing here. Seen the electrical inspector get on his cell and call the building inspector and say come on down.
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Then you get one of these nifty little signs on the front door:

DSC05609a.jpg
 
I will concur with Marc on this. I'm from the other end of the state in Pgh.

Pgh is the county seat of Allegheny County. Here in Allegheny County there are 130 municipalities with Pgh being the largest and the only one with any sort of licensing requirement (and maybe Johnstown I think). That means 130 different set of rules, 130 different mayors, police chiefs, fire chiefs, 130 different city or borough councils in Allegheny County alone.

That's only the tip of the iceberg. The Pgh metro area is generally considered Allegheny county and the six surrounding counties. That means to make a "quick" phone call to the building dept. means wading through literally 100's of different phone numbers to find the correct one for the town you're working in.

As on the other end of the state, on service upgrades the POCO's do require inspections before the re-connect however depending on which POCO is involved we sometimes do our own tie ins and the inspector will fax the cut in after the inspection with the POCO coming out later to make the "permanent" connections (or not).

Electrical licenses and permits are required and enforced in the City of Pgh proper and are generally not an issue, pull the permit, do the job to code and call for an inspection, no problem. The other areas are another story though. As said before, if a building permit is required an electrical inspection is usually required but maybe not an electrical permit. Some municipalities have contracts with certain inspection agencies while others will allow any state licensed "electrical inspector" to inspect and sign off on the job.

AS far as inspections, generally if I'm doing much more than fixture and device change outs. I'll call for an inspection. if I can figure out who to call. As said before to CYA.

It's a tough job, but somebody has to do it.

FRANK
 
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Can anyone, other than a licensed electrician, pull an electrical permit in your state? Or, do they just record the electrician for the project on the building permit when the building permit is pulled?
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GC and HO can both pull permits.
 
I let a one use my electrical tape to put it up.... GC never pulled a permit. The crane outside lifting up the new rooftop units caught the inspector's eye from the road. end of story.
 
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