GE Panel Bonding Screw (subpanel)

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M. D. said:
Question ,...what would happen, ...in a panel wired by the boss,.. to that connector on the # 4 should one the ungrounded feeder conductors fault to the enclouser ??? or better yet if it had been passed through that little K.O.

Melt,.. spark and sputter ?? or safey carry the fault?? nothing at all ,..just sit
there with a high potential to harm ??
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Most likely melt, since it's made of zinc/potmetal. If the GEC was pushed through the small knockout with no fitting I would expect at least a little arcing there, probably major arcing.

I never said the NM connector was right. :)

Infinity - yes, I've seen those connectors on the web, never saw one installed anywhere around here yet though in real life.
 
M. D. said:
Question ,...what would happen, ...in a panel wired by the boss,.. to that connector on the # 4 should one the ungrounded feeder conductors fault to the enclouser ??? or better yet if it had been passed through that little K.O.

Melt,.. spark and sputter ?? or safey carry the fault?? nothing at all ,..just sit
there with a high potential to harm ??
Click to expand...

IMHO....it would first spark and sputter (due to different Z values) and possibly fail at some undetermined time.
 
well if this were a sub panel at a separate structure with a couple of ground rods , and not metal water between them I'm not sure much would happen other than an increased possibility of harm due to the fact that the ground rods would not clear the fault also the electric bill would mostlikely increase ... your boss is a ,.. well ,..I'll just say he is not willing to learn and that, that is a shame.

I worked for a guy back in the 80's who drove a ground rod in his yard ran a # 12 on a 15 amp breaker to it ,.. we got on the deck and he threw a switch ,.. at the time ,..I expected the breaker to trip ,.. it did not,.. it was then I learned that a ground rod does very little to clear a fault ..
 
M. D. said:
.. it was then I learned that a ground rod does very little to clear a fault ..
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Just to help others get up to speed:

250.4(A)(5) ['05 & '08]comes to mind here :smile:
 
infinity said:
The NM connector is not listed to bond the GEC to the panel box. It's not even listed to fasten the EGC to the box. There is a listed fitting called the Kenny clamp that can be used for this purpose but is not required by code. Using Dennis' method (small KO) is code compliant.


kennyclampinstalledcloseup.jpg
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Nice. I was wondering what you guys were talking about when you mentioned a Kenny Clamp.
I usually use a piece of 1/2" pvc to sleeve the #4 or #6 just so its neat and easy to strap
 
M. D. said:
Question ,...what would happen, ...in a panel wired by the boss,.. to that connector on the # 4 should one the ungrounded feeder conductors fault to the enclouser ??? or better yet if it had been passed through that little K.O.

Melt,.. spark and sputter ?? or safey carry the fault?? nothing at all ,..just sit
there with a high potential to harm ??
Click to expand...

Ask the boss what would happen if there were a nick in one of the ungrounded conductors and it was touching the can? Would he remove the cover? How would it clear the fault? Using a nm connector is better than nothing in this case but it is still wrong. I am here just about every day reading and learning. There are those here that are supper knolagable and as a group their is nothing left uncovered. Your boss needs a lesson in humility, he doesn't know it all.
 
I have a simple question..As I add the ground bar in sub panels..because I never have enough space to terminate too..so what do you do when you run out of neutral spots to terminate too..you add a bar so why remove the jumper between the bars and not just add a ground bar..
 
tom baker said:
Has the 2008 NEC changed the 25 ohm rule?
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Nope

2008 NEC said:
250.56 Resistance of Rod, Pipe, and Plate Electrodes.
A single electrode consisting of a rod, pipe, or plate that does not have a resistance to ground of 25 ohms or less shall be augmented by one additional electrode of any of the types specified by 250.52(A)(4) through (A)(8). Where multiple rod, pipe, or plate electrodes are installed to meet the requirements of this section, they shall not be less than 1.8 m (6 ft) apart.

FPN: The paralleling efficiency of rods longer than 2.5 m
(8 ft) is improved by spacing greater than 1.8 m (6 ft).
​
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[NOTE: This blue color indicates the change in the '08 from the '05]


cschmid said:
... why remove the jumper between the bars and not just add a ground bar..
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I guess that depends on if you are the first guy or the last guy to be in the panel :grin:
 
[I guess that depends on if you are the first guy or the last guy to be in the panel :grin:[/QUOTE]


Kind of reminds me of some lyrics from an Ozzie Ozborne song..:grin:

I can never imagine myself as the last one in a panel..
 
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