GEC at Sub Panel

[jap]

If you tap the 200a Feeder with anything less than 200a rated wire or 200a rated subpanel then yes, your
correct you would have to install an overcurrent device to protect the tap conductor and follow the rules for
percentages of the ampacity of the coductor and the length of the tap.

 

[Little Bill]

Updated Pics of the Steps

Updated Pics of the Steps

I went back to the pool site today and grabbed a few pics of the new steps.

Someone asked about if the steps would be stationary enough to mount directly to. Well although they aren't grouted, they do have a mesh type membrane between the blocks to help tie them in.
Also, the edge pieces (bull nose?) are glued down.
From the pics, does anyone have different/better ideas of how to mount the panel?

 

[John120/240]

I went back to the pool site today and grabbed a few pics of the new steps.

Someone asked about if the steps would be stationary enough to mount directly to. Well although they aren't grouted, they do have a mesh type membrane between the blocks to help tie them in.
Also, the edge pieces (bull nose?) are glued down.
From the pics, does anyone have different/better ideas of how to mount the panel?

Is there a remote location for your Panel ? Farther down the wall to the right ? Will the LB for the left panel be accessible ?

 

[jap]

He's covering up your LB, stop him before its too late.
This is getting worse by the minute.
Is this actually a 400 Amp service with (2) 200 Amp enclosed circuit breakers?
That doesnt look like a 400 amp meter.

If it is I would be almost to the point of changing the meter and (2) enclosed circuit breakers out to a 400 Amp Meter combo
where one side has a 200 Amp main with distribution and feed thru lugs and the other side has (1) 200 amp feeder breaker only
and use the distribution portion of the combo to feed the pool equipment.

Is it possible to geth the one feeder thats fixing to be covered up moved to the other side by the one on the right through the
crawl space or not? If so the 400Amp meter combo would work out.

 

[Little Bill]

Is there a remote location for your Panel ? Farther down the wall to the right ? Will the LB for the left panel be accessible ?

Can't go to the right because of other equipment...HVAC etc. Wouldn't meet clearance requirements for the front of the panel.

The LB on the left is not completely blocked yet. They haven't blocked all the way over to it.
The guy (contractor) was not there and I don't speak Spanish so I couldn't explain to them about the LB.

They had these steps layed the last time I was there and they didn't come over to the LB then. Found out from the HO that they tore those back out and redid them.
But if they cover up that LB, they'll be tearing them out again!

 

[kwired]

Covering the LB is OK as long as is still remains accessible somehow. It is not required to be readily accessible.

What about 110.26 and the space in front of the left panel in the photo?

I could swear there was a section specifically prohibiting installation of a panelboard over stair steps, but am not finding it. Looked in 110.26 and in 408.

 

[jap]

Covering the LB is OK as long as is still remains accessible somehow. It is not required to be readily accessible.

What about 110.26 and the space in front of the left panel in the photo?

I could swear there was a section specifically prohibiting installation of a panelboard over stair steps, but am not finding it. Looked in 110.26 and in 408.

I wouldnt consider having to remove a mortered stone in front of an LB cover accessible.

 

[kwired]

I wouldnt consider having to remove a mortered stone in front of an LB cover accessible.

I don't either, doesn't mean it is impossible to make it removable somehow.

 

[jap]

I don't either, doesn't mean it is impossible to make it removable somehow.

That's the issue I have with some others interpretation of "Accessible".
Anything is accessible with the right amount of demolition equipment but I dont think thats what the code
had in mind when they came up with the terms "Accessible" or "Readily Accessible".

but thats just me.

 

[jap]

But maybe you meant they could leave the stone removable without solidly grouting it in probably.

 

[Little Bill]

Covering the LB is OK as long as is still remains accessible somehow. It is not required to be readily accessible.

What about 110.26 and the space in front of the left panel in the photo?

I could swear there was a section specifically prohibiting installation of a panelboard over stair steps, but am not finding it. Looked in 110.26 and in 408.

240.24(F) - 2008
But I'm not installing the OCPD, it's already there. The steps however are new. The inspector was there today but didn't mention it. But I only had him there to look at the pool perimeter bond so they could cover it up.

Don't know how he will handle this on my next rough inspection.

I did tell the contractor he would have to expose that LB. He said he would take care of it.

 

[kwired]

But maybe you meant they could leave the stone removable without solidly grouting it in probably.

exactly what I meant, or some method to remove it that doesn't mean using demolition tools to remove it.

Run into this with wood decks all the time. But it is much easier to remove a floor board or two than it is to remove grouted in masonry products. Don't have any good ideas as to how to do this, but doesn't mean it can't be done.

 

[Little Bill]

exactly what I meant, or some method to remove it that doesn't mean using demolition tools to remove it.

Run into this with wood decks all the time. But it is much easier to remove a floor board or two than it is to remove grouted in masonry products. Don't have any good ideas as to how to do this, but doesn't mean it can't be done.

That's why I left the project with the contractor. That, and it was their screw up anyway!

 

[Little Bill]

exactly what I meant, or some method to remove it that doesn't mean using demolition tools to remove it.

Run into this with wood decks all the time. But it is much easier to remove a floor board or two than it is to remove grouted in masonry products. Don't have any good ideas as to how to do this, but doesn't mean it can't be done.

That's why I left the project with the contractor. That, and it was their screw up anyway!

This is their solution to the problem!

 

[kwired]

That fixes the accessibility issue with the conduit body, now we need to know if we have any 110.26 violations or not. Left disconnect - depends on if you consider the stair treads as acceptable surface for the workspace. Right disconnect - do you have a 30x36 unobstructed space? Is not easy to say for certain from the photos.

 

[Little Bill]

That fixes the accessibility issue with the conduit body, now we need to know if we have any 110.26 violations or not. Left disconnect - depends on if you consider the stair treads as acceptable surface for the workspace. Right disconnect - do you have a 30x36 unobstructed space? Is not easy to say for certain from the photos.

I think the intent of the rule for stairs was so you didn't have to stand on uneven surfaces while working on the panel. Sort of like if the panel was to the left or right of the stairs at 90?.
I believe there is sufficient room on the top tread to access the disconnect. Besides, the top tread makes a nice seat for you to sit down and work on the disconnect.

There is plenty of clearance on the right disconnect. The 30" doesn't have to be centered on the panel/disconnect. The area to the left of the disconnect probably is close, but there is ample room to the right of it.

 

[kwired]

I believe there is sufficient room on the top tread to access the disconnect. Besides, the top tread makes a nice seat for you to sit down and work on the disconnect.

Maybe for really small people. For fat boys like me, it ain't gonna work that way.

There is plenty of clearance on the right disconnect. The 30" doesn't have to be centered on the panel/disconnect. The area to the left of the disconnect probably is close, but there is ample room to the right of it.

I only mentioned it because it was not easy to tell from the photos.

 

[GoldDigger]

This is their solution to the problem!

It will fill up with debris pretty fast, although the drainage looks good. Enough clearance for wire loops when re-pulling.
But when somebody steps in the hole, they will say you made them put it there.
If I were the owner I would be more comfortable with a removable grate on top of the hole.

 

[kwired]

It will fill up with debris pretty fast, although the drainage looks good. Enough clearance for wire loops when re-pulling.
But when somebody steps in the hole, they will say you made them put it there.
If I were the owner I would be more comfortable with a removable grate on top of the hole.

Once it is full of debris, the ankle twisting hazard is mostly gone:happyyes:

 

[Little Bill]

It will fill up with debris pretty fast, although the drainage looks good. Enough clearance for wire loops when re-pulling.
But when somebody steps in the hole, they will say you made them put it there.
If I were the owner I would be more comfortable with a removable grate on top of the hole.

I was going to suggest to them about putting something removeable over the hole. I already thought about all the crap that would end up in there.

There probably is some type of grate or colored aluminum that would match the color of the steps ok.