GEC connection misunderstanding

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macmikeman

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Yesterday I got called to redo a grounding electrode conductor connection by the local inspector checking my most recent house wiring job. I had run my gec to my gr rod and then non spliced over to a water pipe spigot nearby that comes up out of the ground after running below the slab over to its connection point to the rest of the cold water pipes. The inspector wants my gec connection to the water supply made at the water service for the house where the pressure reducer is located. He told me it needed to be within 5 ft of the entry to the building. My reply is that code is refering to INTERIOR metal water piping as per 250.52 (a) (1) and that any exterior underground metal water pipe longer than 10 feet is ok. He wasn't budging. Anybody got an opinion on this?
 
Re: GEC connection misunderstanding

He is correct. The connection to a water pipe for a grounding electrode must be made within 5' of the entrance of the pipe to the building.

Look at 250.52(A)(1)
 
Re: GEC connection misunderstanding

Well let?s look at 250.52 (A) (1)

The way the first sentence is written it states:
A metal underground water pipe in direct contact with the earth for 3.0 m (10 ft) or more and electrically continuous to the points of connection of the grounding electrode conductor and the bonding conductors.

The second sentence states:
Interior metal water piping located more than 1.52 m (5 ft) from the point of entrance to the building shall not be used as a part of the grounding electrode system or as a conductor to interconnect electrodes that are part of the grounding electrode system.

The first is addressing a water pipe in direct contact with earth, the other if we attach to it on the inside.

The only problem I see is what size is the service and is the grounding conductor big enough.
 
Re: GEC connection misunderstanding

That is just amazing, I would of never thought of that as code. I never would of even thought of it period. I'll probally never try it anyway!

frank
 
Re: GEC connection misunderstanding

I don't see a problem with it but I am sure your going to have a hard time convincing the inspector.
 
Re: GEC connection misunderstanding

You would still have to bond to the water pipe within 5' of where it enters the building as far as interior bonding is concerned.
Karl
 
Re: GEC connection misunderstanding

karl,

I can't seem to find that requirement in the V. BONDING section of the NEC?

frank
 
Re: GEC connection misunderstanding

A connection is made to the metal water piping within 5 ft of the entrance to the building only if the water pipe is a grounding electrode per 250.52(A)(1). If its not a grounding electode then a bonding connection per 250.104 is made at an accessible location.
See section 250.55 for the size of the GEC.
 
Re: GEC connection misunderstanding

Sometimes very compliant and creative problem solving from a young electrician will never convince an old inspector. I have resolved that unless some $$'s are on the line, just do what the inspector wants and move on. I hate sword fighting over a dot or a tittle.
 
Re: GEC connection misunderstanding

Well in this case both time and dollars are on the line, but mostly eyesore problems. The meter is located on a cmu column at the front end of a carport. The height of the carport ceiling is 14' ft. from grade. In order to reach the pressure reducer area I will have to run another gr electrode conductor up the cmu column in conduit. The job was a 100 amp install. I used #6 bare copper with a 1/2" pvc conduit to protect for those who enquired. This is a new on the job inspector and now I think he just doesn't want to back down. I see this as jwelectric. The water pipe is clearly on the exterior and it's more than 10' of direct contact with the soil. Probably I will end up running the stupid wire just to keep city hall happy. Inspectors who do not really know the code well can cause money to be lost needlessly, I have had stuff like this in the past and hate to have to fix a non problem just to not make a new problem for myself, which is a resentful electrical inspector.
 
Re: GEC connection misunderstanding

By the way " Infinity", I disagree with you. Please re read the code in question again and notice the wording INTERIOR. If you make a GEC connection to an interior water pipe then it must be within 5' of where it enters the building so it will not become possibly isolated if they replace the copper pipe with pvc pipe at some future point. If it is exterior in direct contact with soil for 10 feet or more it can be used as a grounding electrode with NO restrictions on Where it is located in relation to Where the water pipe enters the structure or building. If you wish you could run the dang grounding electrode conductor in a trench out to the property line and hook it up to the water pipe out near the street if you so desired to waste copper wire.
 
Re: GEC connection misunderstanding

Macmikeman,

You are correct. I missed the part in your original post where you said that the water pipe to the spigot was under the concrete. For some reason I thought that it said that it was in the concrete. After re-reading the original post I stand corrected.

Also, I agree with you that the inspector shouldn't make up his own code rules. He should explain exactly how your installation is a violation of the article he sited and when he can't then he should sign off on your installation.
 
Re: GEC connection misunderstanding

macmikeman, I do not see anything in 250 that prohibits what you have done.

IMO you should make your water pipe connection inside within the 5' of entrance.

I don't see that you can be forced to.
 
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