GEC in Metered Disconnect?

[texie]

Can I bring up one more thing that makes no sense, as far as inspectors and POCO goes. Where I'm at, my local inspectors (I'm pretty sure POCO doesn't like it either) hate it when you bond the neutral inside the meter. They've asked me multiple times when I'm getting inspections if I bonded it or not inside the meter can... Doesn't this go against code... 250.80 clearly states that all metal raceways and enclosures for service conductors and equipment must be bonded to the neutral. It's clear as day, or am I somehow reading this incorrectly? So any enclosure I have from service point to service disconnect must have the neutral bonded to the metal housing.

As I mentioned in post #3, bonding the neutral is just one way of complying with 250.92 and 250.80. There are other methods such as I mentioned and detailed 250.92. The bottom line is all metallic items on the line side of the service disconnect must be bonded in a manner compliant with 250.92.
Note that most meter cans have non-removable factory bonds but in recent years meter cans have become available with field installable bonding jumpers. This is because sometimes meter sockets are needed for non-service applications. The point is you can bond the meter for a service by bonding to the neutral or any other method in 250.92. You still need a main bonding jumper in the service disconnect no matter how you comply with 250.92.

 

[tom baker]

Every meter socket I have used has a factory bonded terminal for the GEC
First of all it is accessible even if sealed and if it isn't nobody has answered the question as to why the other conductors are allowed to be inaccessible.

Roger

And every meter socket I have installed since 1978 has no lug for a GEC. Must be a regional thing.
Our AHJs state the GEC inside the meter socket is not accessible when sealed.

 

[retirede]

Our AHJs state the GEC inside the meter socket is not accessible when sealed.

They must not be using the NEC definition of “accessible”.

 

[JasonCo]

And every meter socket I have installed since 1978 has no lug for a GEC. Must be a regional thing.
Our AHJs state the GEC inside the meter socket is not accessible when sealed.

Must be. The 320 meter can I installed a few months back had a GEC lug. Typically I haven't seen them but I'm a fresh Journeyman so I just haven't seen enough. This last one I did absolutely had it though.

 

[tom baker]

Every meter socket I have used has a factory bonded terminal for the GEC
First of all it is accessible even if sealed and if it isn't nobody has answered the question as to why the other conductors are allowed to be inaccessible.

Roger

And all the meter sockets I have installed have no GEC terminal, so must be regional thing
Our AHJ don't allow connection in the meter socket as its not accessible when meter is sealed.

 

[LarryFine]

The NEC basically views the meter as a bulge in the service cable.

I think the meter base is ideal for outside electrode(s) as the last point before building entrance.

Our meter bases have an EGC lug, too, but we're not allowed to use it, either.

We don't have to have access to meter terminals because we're not allowed to have access to them.

 

[jaggedben]

They must not be using the NEC definition of “accessible”.

Hmm. Which NEC definition applies to a GEC termination? It's neither equipment nor a wiring method, at least not clearly. Seems like a blind spot in the code's use of the word.

 

[Carultch]

They must not be using the NEC definition of “accessible”.

I can understand why. Locations that the NEC considers accessible, but not readily accessible, involve reversible removal of obstacles, or reversible use of a tool to gain access. Need to cut through drywall to get to it? It's not accessible. Need to remove a suspended ceiling tile, that you can later put back in place? That's accessible, but not readily accessible. Opening a meter seal is irreversible, and you have to permanently damage it to open it, and I can understand why its interior would be considered "not accessible".

 

[roger]

Can I bring up one more thing that makes no sense, as far as inspectors and POCO goes. Where I'm at, my local inspectors (I'm pretty sure POCO doesn't like it either) hate it when you bond the neutral inside the meter. They've asked me multiple times when I'm getting inspections if I bonded it or not inside the meter can... Doesn't this go against code... 250.80 clearly states that all metal raceways and enclosures for service conductors and equipment must be bonded to the neutral. It's clear as day, or am I somehow reading this incorrectly? So any enclosure I have from service point to service disconnect must have the neutral bonded to the metal housing.

Here is a typical meter can we would use. Notice the Neutral lugs are bonded to the enclosure and a small lug for the GEC is also included. This still doesn't replace the Main Bonding Jumper though, it would still be required be in the service disconnect.



Roger

 

[roger]

Opening a meter seal is irreversible, and you have to permanently damage it to open it, and I can understand why its interior would be considered "not accessible".

Having to wait for some POCO employee to remove a seal doesn't render it inaccessible no more than waiting for someone to show up with a key for an electrical room.

With that said, why is the GEC the only conductor that has to be accessible inside the enclosure?

Has anybody actually been called out in the middle of a raging storm because of a loose GEC connection and had to wait for some one to come let them in?

Roger

 

[jap]

With that said, why is the GEC the only conductor that has to be accessible inside the enclosure?

Roger

I would say because it's the only connection inside the meter that could "lose connection" and you'd never know it.

Which couldn't be said for all the other wires that are terminated inside the meter base.


JAP>

 

[roger]

I would say because it's the only connection inside the meter that could "lose connection" and you'd never know it.

Which couldn't be said for all the other wires that are terminated inside the meter base.


JAP>

I would say it is more about clueless people. If the other conductors can be inaccessible in a meter we should be allowed to bury branch circuit and feeder splices in walls and in concrete.

Roger

 

[jap]

Yes, but, keep in mind, the meter base is the only place where 2 worlds collide.

JAP>

 

[ActionDave]

I would say it is more about clueless people. If the other conductors can be inaccessible in a meter we should be allowed to bury branch circuit and feeder splices in walls and in concrete.

Roger

I agree it's about clueless people but I think they are motivated by the ritualistic attitude a lot of people have about the The Ground. The Ground is sacred. We must not splice The Ground. We must see The Ground. The Ground may not be left in compartments under a utility company seal. The Ground is the most holy of all the conductors in the NEC.

 

[jap]

To me it has nothing to do with the GEC or the termination of it.

It's the whole concept of the community "Locked Box" which is only accessible by stipulations.

Everyone who doesn't have a key feel they should be to see what's inside without having to have permission because they have dealings inside the box,
yet,
Those who have the key to the box don't want anyone inside the box without calling them for permission.

It's just not fair.

JAP>