- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
That is the very reason that I submitted a PI to change "pipe" to "driven pipe". The "pipe" in that section has nothing to do with a metal underground water pipe.
GEC
- Thread starter Djelite
- Start date
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
He was quoting Bill.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Yes that's it. A single rod unless tested is not an electrode by itself.
Awesome. I had to look at three code books to get the language correct
- Location
- Tennessee NEC:2017
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrician
Ok, maybe I'm convinced now.
In fact, I probably wouldn't even use the water pipe to start with, code or not.
ggunn
PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
- Location
- Austin, TX, USA
- Occupation
- Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
Some AHJs require a grounding bond to a cold water pipe regardless of any other GEC connection.
In nyc thats a violation
- Location
- Tennessee NEC:2017
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrician
Because it's just going to be replaced with PEX or the like!
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
There are two trains of thought as I see it:
1. Does the inspector have to prove that it qualifies as an electrode to require bonding?
Or:
2. Does the electrician have to prove that it does not qualify as an electrode to omit it?
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
If the water piping system is all metallic it is required to be bonded to the electrical system even if it doesn't qualify as an electrode.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Must that bond point still be within five feet of the entrance?
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
No. The 5' rule only applies to when the water pipe is an electrode.
Again in nyc 5 ft in before any coupling
Fred B
Senior Member
- Location
- Upstate, NY
- Occupation
- Electrician
Historically around here all you had is the water pipe (galvanized) as the sole GE. Then came requirement that it must be supplemented by another electrode (rod or otherwise). Now with so much plastic piping being changed to replace the Galvanized it can be questioned whether you have an electrode from the water pipe. (regardless metal water pipe still must be bonded but it Might not qualify as an electrode 250.52(A)(1)
(1) Metal Underground Water Pipe.
A metal underground water pipe in direct contact with the earth for 3.0 m (10 ft) or more (including any metal well casing bonded to the pipe) and electrically continuous (or made electrically continuous by bonding around insulating joints or insulating pipe) to the points of connection of the grounding electrode conductor and the bonding conductor(s) or jumper(s), if installed.
If it doesn't meet this criteria then you don't have an electrode and the one rod 250.52(A)(5) must be supplemented by another Electrode. (250.53(A)(2)). If the water pipe meets the requirement then that electrode must be supplemented by another electrode. (250.53(D)(2)).
250.52(A)(1) water pipe and 250.52(A)(5) Rod and pipe electrode are not the same thing. 250.52(A)(1) requires 10 ft in continuous earth contact, 250.52(A)(5) require 8 ft in length.
One water pipe meeting 250.52(A)(2) and one Rod Meeting 250.53(D)(2) are all that is required.
250.52(A)(4) a single rod 8 ft in length is a GE
(1) Metal Underground Water Pipe.
A metal underground water pipe in direct contact with the earth for 3.0 m (10 ft) or more (including any metal well casing bonded to the pipe) and electrically continuous (or made electrically continuous by bonding around insulating joints or insulating pipe) to the points of connection of the grounding electrode conductor and the bonding conductor(s) or jumper(s), if installed.
If it doesn't meet this criteria then you don't have an electrode and the one rod 250.52(A)(5) must be supplemented by another Electrode. (250.53(A)(2)). If the water pipe meets the requirement then that electrode must be supplemented by another electrode. (250.53(D)(2)).
250.52(A)(1) water pipe and 250.52(A)(5) Rod and pipe electrode are not the same thing. 250.52(A)(1) requires 10 ft in continuous earth contact, 250.52(A)(5) require 8 ft in length.
One water pipe meeting 250.52(A)(2) and one Rod Meeting 250.53(D)(2) are all that is required.
250.52(A)(4) a single rod 8 ft in length is a GE
wwhitney
Senior Member
- Location
- Berkeley, CA
- Occupation
- Retired
OK, but a ground rod meeting 250.53(D)(2) will have its own supplemental electrode, typically a 2nd ground rod, as the water pipe electrode does not satisfy 250.53(D)(2).
So one water pipe and two rods are all that is required.
Cheers, Wayne
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
The NEC allows the connection within 5' of the entry of the water pipe into the structure. There is no prohibition on couplings, valves, water meters, etc. being within that 5' The only NYC amendment to Article 250 is the exception to 250.52(A)(1) and that wouldn't apply to couplings in the first 5' of water pipe. So what is the source of your statement?
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Not surprised with them getting things wrong.
Fred B
Senior Member
- Location
- Upstate, NY
- Occupation
- Electrician
So you are saying to supplement the supplement. So wording of 250.53(D) should be change to read supplemented by 2 Rods.
Two rods or one rod if 25ohms is achieved