Generac 14kw troubleshooting high rpm shut down

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
FWIW, Generac is interested in only 3 things - SALES, SALES, SALES. They will open up anyone as a "sales" dealer but will not give you any tech support or sell you parts unless you go through their training and carry the $2K worth of spare parts on your truck(you know those parts, half of which are the parts that generally go wrong with the units and the other half - just in case you need them).
 

templdl

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
It is interesting that even though Generac has a reputation that is suggested that Generac listed contacted directly first instead of relying on others with the assumption that Generic would blow them off anyway.
The OP should contact them directly and give of some feedback. Generac used to be an OEM customer of mine many years ago and they went through purchasing agents right and left. Any time that I found a new PA at one of my customers the uh had left Generic more so than not. my son worked their in assembly for a short time maybe 14 years ago, he quick and never would go back at any amount of Monet due to how they treated people. But, the again, I've talked to people in numerous positions who said they are great.
That being said the original owner sold the and I believe that they went public and changed their business model and to ignore contacting them for technical support would be somewhat short sited.
Just contact Generac and report back to us.
 

eHunter

Senior Member
I apologize in advance to Generac fans, but this opinion is from my nearly 30 years’ experience with generators including Generac.

We stopped buying, selling, installing, specifying or recommending Generac over a year ago due to the poor support, services and overall unit quality.
I personally had a generac experience just recently, a client had a 20KW unit that would not start and I called the 888 number, waited in queue for over 13 minutes only to be referred to their authorized dealer network.
They refused to provide any suport assistance over the phone to me or the equipment owner(our client) directly.
Apparently, the current process is to contact an authorized dealer directly for support and service.
When the client contacted the local dealer, they were informed that there would be a service call expense and that if the unit was under warranty, the parts cost might be covered under warranty since they did not originally install the unit.
This type of support and quality of warranty/support/service does not set well with me.
 
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shortcircuit2

Senior Member
Location
South of Bawstin
WOW...I'm glad I work with Kohler. Although you need to go thru a dealer to get things done, I'm satisfied with the quick response from my local dealer and the quality of the gen-sets.

I have seen a gen-set start and stall because the gas line was too small.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
WOW...I'm glad I work with Kohler. Although you need to go thru a dealer to get things done, I'm satisfied with the quick response from my local dealer and the quality of the gen-sets.

I have seen a gen-set start and stall because the gas line was too small.
With NG you have no choice but to increase the size of the pipe or move the pressure regulator closer to the generator. :)
With LPG you can go to a two stage regulator setup with the long feed line working at a higher pressure and the secondary regulator right at the generator dropping it to the inlet pressure the genset needs.
But also make sure that the tank is large enough to supply all the gas that the genset will need when the propane and the tank are cold.
 

bgelectric

Senior Member
Thanks everyone for you input!
i did not call Generac because I am well aware of their "great" support.
I knew going here I would be more effective.
After reading the posts I went straight to the governor/stepper motor.
The rod was not moving during start up therefore not adjusting the air to fuel ratio.
Tested resistance across the 6 pin connector and found one pair open.:happyyes:
Thanks for the help!!
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Electrician
Thanks everyone for you input!
i did not call Generac because I am well aware of their "great" support.
I knew going here I would be more effective.
After reading the posts I went straight to the governor/stepper motor.
The rod was not moving during start up therefore not adjusting the air to fuel ratio.
Tested resistance across the 6 pin connector and found one pair open.:happyyes:
Thanks for the help!!
Well, why were they open? Loose connection, broke wires, etc?
When you say "tested resistance" do you mean continuity?

What did you do to repair the open pair in the connector?
 

bgelectric

Senior Member
Well, why were they open? Loose connection, broke wires, etc?
When you say "tested resistance" do you mean continuity?

What did you do to repair the open pair in the connector?
I was looking for 10 ohms across two wires on the 6 pin connector going to the control board.
Trouble shooting guide calls for testing red to orange, red to yellow, red to brown and red to black.
Red to brown was open and the others tested around 10 ohms.

The open is inside the motor casing as none was discovered in the wiring.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
I was looking for 10 ohms across two wires on the 6 pin connector going to the control board.
Trouble shooting guide calls for testing red to orange, red to yellow, red to brown and red to black.
Red to brown was open and the others tested around 10 ohms.

The open is inside the motor casing as none was discovered in the wiring.
Do the same test on the replacement stepper motor before you install it.
BTW, if this means that only one pulse/phase winding of the stepper was open, it should be able to move back and forth a short distance until it hits a spot where that phase is needed to move on. :)

Out of curiosity, how many others out there have had to replace stepper motors?
 

bgelectric

Senior Member
Do the same test on the replacement stepper motor before you install it.
BTW, if this means that only one pulse/phase winding of the stepper was open, it should be able to move back and forth a short distance until it hits a spot where that phase is needed to move on. :)

Out of curiosity, how many others out there have had to replace stepper motors?
Are you implying the motor was in a position where it wouldnt measure any resistance anyways?
The dio manual is very specific on this.
If ANY combination does not measure around 10 ohms replace the stepper motor. Prior to that you need to manually move the
motor to the closed throttle position then try starting. If the motor does not move to the open position measure resistance to determine if there is an open :)
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Are you implying the motor was in a position where it wouldnt measure any resistance anyways?
The dio manual is very specific on this.
No, I was just confusing the issue with the possibility that you could get limited motion out of the stepper even with one winding open, not saying that the position had any effect on the measured winding resistance. (And I did not have the full text from Generac that you were looking at.)

Did you do the manual close test before you got out the meter?
 

RLyons

Senior Member
I apologize in advance to Generac fans, but this opinion is from my nearly 30 years? experience with generators including Generac.

We stopped buying, selling, installing, specifying or recommending Generac over a year ago due to the poor support, services and overall unit quality.
I personally had a generac experience just recently, a client had a 20KW unit that would not start and I called the 888 number, waited in queue for over 13 minutes only to be referred to their authorized dealer network.
They refused to provide any suport assistance over the phone to me or the equipment owner(our client) directly.
Apparently, the current process is to contact an authorized dealer directly for support and service.
When the client contacted the local dealer, they were informed that there would be a service call expense and that if the unit was under warranty, the parts cost might be covered under warranty since they did not originally install the unit.
This type of support and quality of warranty/support/service does not set well with me.
Curious as to which generators you do prefer?
 

bgelectric

Senior Member
No, I was just confusing the issue with the possibility that you could get limited motion out of the stepper even with one winding open, not saying that the position had any effect on the measured winding resistance. (And I did not have the full text from Generac that you were looking at.)

Did you do the manual close test before you got out the meter?
Yes.
 
WOW...I'm glad I work with Kohler. Although you need to go thru a dealer to get things done, I'm satisfied with the quick response from my local dealer and the quality of the gen-sets.

I have seen a gen-set start and stall because the gas line was too small.
So, you are for Kohler because they use their dealer network, which it seems everyone here is damning Generac for doing! As a Generac Power Pro Dealer I applaud them for finally recognizing they were doing their dealers a disservice by not restricting their tech line.
 

hurk27

Senior Member
So, you are for Kohler because they use their dealer network, which it seems everyone here is damning Generac for doing! As a Generac Power Pro Dealer I applaud them for finally recognizing they were doing their dealers a disservice by not restricting their tech line.
Wonder if you would feel that way if you had to take your car to dealer and pay their prices to have work done on your car if you have the ability to do your own repairs? I can see this for warranty work because the manufacture would want to know if a qualified person did the repairs, but what about those with generators out of warranty which is only one year for Generac Guardian series, seems to me that they should have the option to do the work themselves or have a person who knows generators do the work which I have been doing for years, otherwise you open the door to price abuse when you remove any competition, our Constitution protects us from monopolizing and give us a choice to have things repairs by anyone we chose including ourself, a car manufacture who tried the same thing would be hit with allot of law suits if they ever tried to do this, there are many people who like doing their own work not only because of the money they save but the feeling of self sufficient of being able to do for ones self can be gratifying.

Now by restricting any help or parts supply they are monopolizing that only their people can do the work, I know some dealers will sell to us but many won't sell parts other then just oil filters and spark plugs without them coming out and doing the trouble shooting and the part replacement, I had one dealer claim that it was because of liability which is false since the only one liable is to the one who does the work not the part seller, other wise we would not have electrical equipment being sold by suppliers to anyone or even car parts, it's all about greed, and I want it all, the funny thing is most of these people would be the first to yell if the same thing was done to them, could you imagine the uproar if car manufactures quit allowing replacement parts from being sold to the general public?

Sorry for the rant, but things like this can get to me because I believe in the American Dream and slowly more and more is being taken away from us.
 
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jimman

Member
Location
North Carolina
Had a 17kw doing about the same thing, and discovered the "choke" lever was extremely loose and would "bind" when the unit started. I am assuming the choke flap is opening and closing during the starting process. I didn't replace the choke lever, but I did tighten it up a little and bent it up a little on the smaller leg to prevent the binding. This seems to be common on them, especially after a few years on the units.
 
Wonder if you would feel that way if you had to take your car to dealer and pay their prices to have work done on your car if you have the ability to do your own repairs? I can see this for warranty work because the manufacture would want to know if a qualified person did the repairs, but what about those with generators out of warranty which is only one year for Generac Guardian series, seems to me that they should have the option to do the work themselves or have a person who knows generators do the work which I have been doing for years, otherwise you open the door to price abuse when you remove any competition, our Constitution protects us from monopolizing and give us a choice to have things repairs by anyone we chose including ourself, a car manufacture who tried the same thing would be hit with allot of law suits if they ever tried to do this, there are many people who like doing their own work not only because of the money they save but the feeling of self sufficient of being able to do for ones self can be gratifying.

Now by restricting any help or parts supply they are monopolizing that only their people can do the work, I know some dealers will sell to us but many won't sell parts other then just oil filters and spark plugs without them coming out and doing the trouble shooting and the part replacement, I had one dealer claim that it was because of liability which is false since the only one liable is to the one who does the work not the part seller, other wise we would not have electrical equipment being sold by suppliers to anyone or even car parts, it's all about greed, and I want it all, the funny thing is most of these people would be the first to yell if the same thing was done to them, could you imagine the uproar if car manufactures quit allowing replacement parts from being sold to the general public?

Sorry for the rant, but things like this can get to me because I believe in the American Dream and slowly more and more is being taken away from us.

It's called Capitalism! A private company can restrict it's supply chain. Call just about any company's tech line that manufacturers equipment and see what's the first thing they ask: dealer #?, tech ID #?
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
So, you are for Kohler because they use their dealer network, which it seems everyone here is damning Generac for doing! As a Generac Power Pro Dealer I applaud them for finally recognizing they were doing their dealers a disservice by not restricting their tech line.
If they're going to profess their loyalty and restrict their tech support they should also restrict their sales approach as well. If you look on the EG Direct site they are pushing everyone's product out the door with absolutely no product support whatsoever. They are basically prostituting the sale of these products with the lure of lower prices, free trucking and no sales tax. If you buy from a local dealer in a state that has sales tax as well as having to pay trucking charges on a single unit basis (and if the seller has the audacity to want to make a profit on the sale of the unit) you're priced out of the ball park. If you run into any problems with the unit they will tell you to call the manufacturer where you will get no response unless you are an "authorized" dealer.

The whole point to this is that many of these manufacturers want to push their products out the door and get the $$$ in their account but, there's no loyalty until it comes time for a repair or warranty.

Maybe we should go back to the wild west days where a kid can go to the general store and buy TNT.:rant:

If a company thinks it's wrong to provide someone with information on their product they shouldn't have sold it to them in the first place.
 
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