Generac Exercise Cycle

[wireman71]

My question is how come electricians are servicing generators? Shouldn't we be wiring them but another sub is installing them?

 

[mdshunk]

My question is how come electricians are servicing generators? Shouldn't we be wiring them but another sub is installing them?

Some people enjoy expanding their horizons a little bit. Don't sweat it.

 

[JohnJ0906]

My question is how come electricians are servicing generators? Shouldn't we be wiring them but another sub is installing them?

The company I work for got "factory certified" by Generac to sell and install.

Meaning the owner and the VP went to where ever the factory is to take their course.

We sub the NG or propane hookup to a gasfitter.

 

[Energy-Miser]

My question is how come electricians are servicing generators? Shouldn't we be wiring them but another sub is installing them?

I don't know what the standard practice is wireman. When I took over the company they were already installing generators, and the crew was used to and experienced in doing this. I am beginning to regret this tradition, with the problems such as I have described here, where we get caught between the adequacy of the gas service and home owner's claims, and the blame game. e/m

 

[Energy-Miser]

The company I work for got "factory certified" by Generac to sell and install.

Meaning the owner and the VP went to where ever the factory is to take their course.

We sub the NG or propane hookup to a gasfitter.

Yes, the gas hookup is done all be the licensed professionals in those areas of expertise, we don't do that part. I don't know, with all the headaches John, I am more inclined to get out of generator installation, than to get more deeply involved in it. It may make sense to take the course and get certified, if there were enough of a demand in the area to specialize in generator installation and do little else. As it stands, it is a reltively small portion of our business. e/m

 

[Energy-Miser]

E-M.,,

I ran into this situation more than once with the set up what you are describing.

for 7KW 1? 120/240v genny genral spec follow this

NG fuel supply min of 3/4 inch and fuel pressure it should be at 7 inch water colum [ apx 1/4 PSIG ]

check out the resdental gas meter i have a hunch the exsting gas meter is too small to handle the gas flowage to the engine. [ most resdetnail gas meter {small common size } are rated for 175KBTU max rating and i know 7 KW unit will required a min of 225KBTU or larger meter.

[ LPG is diffrent story senice you allready mention NG so i will leave this part out for now]

second thing if someone is fidding around with the gaz regulator without a proper gauge to check the gas pressure.

you have to have a gas repair techian check gaz pressure both static [ not flowing ] and running near max rating with all the gas fired applanices running the same time to see how much pressure it drop that part you have to check that before you get the genny on line then after genny on line you will have to recheck the pressure to make sure it can meet the min pressure it run it.

you may have to check the shut off valve on NG sometime you will find debries can clogged up [ it do happend anyway ]

and some NG/ LPG gennys do have interlock on the fuel regulator some need vaccum to open the valve and also check the starting circuit.

hope this will give you a basic guideline here

note above this info will also cover other manufacter brand name as well with the simuiar set up.

Merci, Marc

Thanks for those points. Yes, the owner's manual for the 7 kw genny says that the gas pressure should be between 5 and 7 inches of water. With all the necessary measurements (static pressure, dynamic pressure, etc.), it seems like the adequacy of service will need to be determined by a gas fitter. One thing is for sure, the line is 1/2" and not 3/4". e/m

 

[Energy-Miser]

Actually I ran into the following document online from generac:
http://www.mygenerac.com/PublicPDFs/0172610SBY.pdf
which specifies the size of fuel pipe for different generator size / length of pipe combinations among other things. Table 4 (page 6) of this document specifies a maximum run of 55 feet when the fuel line diameter is 3/4". This is the minimum diameter listed in this table for any generator size. Since 3/4" is the smallest diameter listed in the table, I interpret this as saying that the minimum fuel line diameter for 7 kw gen (or any generator for that matter) should be 3/4", regardless of the length of the fuel line. Am I reading this table correctly? What are your thoughts? e/m

 

[JohnJ0906]

Yes, the gas hookup is done all be the licensed professionals in those areas of expertise, we don't do that part. I don't know, with all the headaches John, I am more inclined to get out of generator installation, than to get more deeply involved in it. It may make sense to take the course and get certified, if there were enough of a demand in the area to specialize in generator installation and do little else. As it stands, it is a reltively small portion of our business. e/m

i'm not sure who exactly checks to see if the gas service is adiquate, but it is not unusual that we have to wait for a gas service upgrade before doing the generator, or returning for start-up

 

[Energy-Miser]

i'm not sure who exactly checks to see if the gas service is adiquate, but it is not unusual that we have to wait for a gas service upgrade before doing the generator, or returning for start-up

You know John, since this job, I have learned to put in our proposals for generators, that we are not responsible for fuel service upgrades necessary for adequate performance of the generator, or a language similar to this. Wish I had done the same for this one, but it is not there. Even so, I would like to know what the gas service is at the premises, when I make my estimating visit. Would the gas bill show something like that, or how will you know? e/m

 

[JohnJ0906]

You know John, since this job, I have learned to put in our proposals for generators, that we are not responsible for fuel service upgrades necessary for adequate performance of the generator, or a language similar to this. Wish I had done the same for this one, but it is not there. Even so, I would like to know what the gas service is at the premises, when I make my estimating visit. Would the gas bill show something like that, or how will you know? e/m

I honestly don't know. I just don't handle that part of it.

I know that it is looked at during the "sales" phase, so by the time I have anything to do with it, the upgrade is in the works, or unnessary.

 

[frenchelectrican]

E-M;

The Natural gas system somehow is diffrent when you come up with the reading from the chart but one thing the chart did not mention 90? ellbows that will really kill the flowage.

A good gas fitter will know this very well. and will use the proper sized piping.

as far i work on few small NG genny most gas pipes i ran into if very short distance from meter useally 3/4" will do it but most place will pony up for 1 inch pipe anyway.

I did see few new homes and they ran the gas pipe inside the house min of 1 inch piping size.

also i kinda forgot to mention on the last post most POCO or Gas company will have addtional regulations along on this matter as well may have to check with their regulations as well.

Merci, Marc

 

[jrannis]

Not sure, it has not been that long since we installed and he has not had a power outage yet. I will have to go there and cut the power to generator to see if it does come online and stay on. It may be a control panel problem, thanks for suggestion about the timer. The Generac guys are not very responsive. What is everyone else's experience with them? e/m

I usually get very good help by calling the 800#.

 

[ItsHot]

generac

generac

Not sure, it has not been that long since we installed and he has not had a power outage yet. I will have to go there and cut the power to generator to see if it does come online and stay on. It may be a control panel problem, thanks for suggestion about the timer. The Generac guys are not very responsive. What is everyone else's experience with them? e/m

The last Generac I installed was a 22kw. It ended up having a major factory defect. Valve stem/guide at the engine head was bent. Upon original start up/test the thing ran hot and blew all of its coolant. The customer had purchased the generator from a distributor, and not me so it was left between them. As someone else stated here, he installs generators and only makes recomendations on the purchase.

 

[PetrosA]

one thing not mentioned

one thing not mentioned

I've only installed one Generac, and I had to learn this the hard way - evidently some of the units ship with a so-called "break-in" oil. It should be run in gradually increasing jogs till there's (IIRC) about 5 hours on the engine. At that point, you need to change the oil and filter for whatever the manufacturer recommends. We didn't know that at the time of installation, didn't do the five hour break-in and got a call back about 6-7 months later that the unit hadn't started when needed (the client is running health equipment, but no life-saving stuff AFAIK). On a whim I checked the oil level and it was nearly bone dry with just some pearly metallic sludge left. I guess the weekly jogs had burned it up in that time. Hope this helps someone...

Peter

 

[jrannis]

I've only installed one Generac, and I had to learn this the hard way - evidently some of the units ship with a so-called "break-in" oil. It should be run in gradually increasing jogs till there's (IIRC) about 5 hours on the engine. At that point, you need to change the oil and filter for whatever the manufacturer recommends. We didn't know that at the time of installation, didn't do the five hour break-in and got a call back about 6-7 months later that the unit hadn't started when needed (the client is running health equipment, but no life-saving stuff AFAIK). On a whim I checked the oil level and it was nearly bone dry with just some pearly metallic sludge left. I guess the weekly jogs had burned it up in that time. Hope this helps someone...

Peter

I believe they are now shipped with regular oil. I change it to mobile 1 after about 20 hrs.

 

[LarryFine]

I believe they are now shipped with regular oil. I change it to mobile 1 after about 20 hrs.

That may be a mistake, as in too few hours of break-in. Mobil 1 is such a good lubricant that it inhibits further break-in of engines. The piston rings never get the opportunity to fully wear and seal to the cylinder walls. 100 hours would be much better, even if that requires an intermediate oil/filter change.

 

[jerm]

My question is how come electricians are servicing generators? Shouldn't we be wiring them but another sub is installing them?

We've installed the Generac Guardians. Haven't had any trouble. I don't know how many. There are four at our warehouse now scheduled to be installed this week and next. I'm going to get the tech manual and read up on the break in procedure and this break-in oil.

... I have learned to put in our proposals for generators, that we are not responsible for fuel service upgrades necessary for adequate performance of the generator, or a language similar to this.

HO responsible for getting the gas side done

, we make sure they know that up front. But we purchase, deliver, set, and wire in the things. Then it's up to a pipefitter.​

 

[Energy-Miser]

We've installed the Generac Guardians. Haven't had any trouble. I don't know how many. There are four at our warehouse now scheduled to be installed this week and next. I'm going to get the tech manual and read up on the break in procedure and this break-in oil.



HO responsible for getting the gas side done

, we make sure they know that up front. But we purchase, deliver, set, and wire in the things. Then it's up to a pipefitter.​

Well, I was finally able to get the HO to contact the warranty people at Generac and they were able to convince him to get his gas fitter / plumber people to pay another visit. Last I heard they changed the regulator (theirs, not the generator's). We are scheduled to go back for another start up, will see if that has made a difference. e/m​