Generac T1 & T0 new extra wire.

[LarryFine]

I remember a common neutral allowance for festoon lighting.

 

[tortuga]

common neutral in feeders is still in 215.4, just for some reason a branch circuit or class 1 control circuit cant share with the feeder neutral.

 

[tortuga]

Edit scratch all that, since the code is permissive there would need to be a prohibition of sharing neutrals.

 

[GarwoodV6]

If you only have 6 control wires, can you still make it work by tagging the feeder neutral on the generator end? what about the ATS end?

 

[Fred B]

They now have a neutral running with it?

Yes, a fairly recent change to the set up. It used to be bonded for the battery charger in the Genset, Now you have to make a separate connection. Otherwise you will get a battery error code. Found out the hard way.
Old configuration

New configuration

Have to make a jumper between J neutral and #4 NEU if you have the older ATS and older Gen cable. Prior version the neutral for the battery charger was wired internally.

 

[shortcircuit2]

Only issue in neutral jumper would be if not in the same cable, raceway, etc...which is how most older generators were wired.
300.3(B)
and also 200.4(A) prohibition of shared neutrals

 

[Fred B]

Only issue in neutral jumper would be if not in the same cable, raceway, etc...which is how most older generators were wired.
300.3(B)
and also 200.4(A) prohibition of shared neutrals

This case the neutral is either run a second from the ATS off the neutral bus there or jumper in the genset on the neutral bus there.
New ATS diagram with a 00-NEU terminal:


Older ATS did not have this termination. Generac is still shipping (new) old stock that does not have the 00 NEU. If you get one of these the charger has to get a neutral to operate and mfg direction is to tap the J Neutral of the Genset to 00 NEU. Not to be confused with the J block of N1, N2.
To address the neutral being in same cable or raceway; the neutral being tapped IS in the same cable or raceway as it is the D neutral of the ATS 120/240 feed and would simply be a shared neutral of a MWBC. And old Genset would have this tap factory done internal to the genset.

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

Yes, a fairly recent change to the set up. It used to be bonded for the battery charger in the Genset, Now you have to make a separate connection. Otherwise you will get a battery error code. Found out the hard way.
Old configuration
View attachment 2573456
New configuration
View attachment 2573458
Have to make a jumper between J neutral and #4 NEU if you have the older ATS and older Gen cable. Prior version the neutral for the battery charger was wired internally.

Just did a liquid-cooled Generac, and the generator had the new T0 terminal. ATS didnt though.

 

[GarwoodV6]

If you have 6-control wire cable and a new ATS AND the new genset that has the 7th wire terminal (00 isolated neutral for the battery charger) can you make it work with a jumper from the primary neutral?
Do you install a neutral jumper at the generator end AND at the ATS?

Adding a 7th conductor for this installation would be a nightmare at this point.

 

[Birken Vogt]

Just did a liquid-cooled Generac, and the generator had the new T0 terminal. ATS didnt though.

Liquid cooled always had a T0 terminal that I recall. Only air cooled pirated the neutral.

 

[Birken Vogt]

If you have 6-control wire cable and a new ATS AND the new genset that has the 7th wire terminal (00 isolated neutral for the battery charger) can you make it work with a jumper from the primary neutral?
Do you install a neutral jumper at the generator end AND at the ATS?

Adding a 7th conductor for this installation would be a nightmare at this point.

I would run a jumper at the generator and be done with it. No need to run a jumper at the ATS, the neutral on the SACM goes right back to the main neutral bar anyway.

 

[Fred B]

I would run a jumper at the generator and be done with it. No need to run a jumper at the ATS, the neutral on the SACM goes right back to the main neutral bar anyway.

That is the instruction from the Generac engineer.

 

[brantmacga]

Long enough you didn't need to activate it before it would work? They now have wifi and you must connect to internet to activate them, at least last couple I was involved with did. Kind of a pain if in location with no internet, last one I think I used my phone as an access point to do this, but someday will probably be in a place with no cell service. Might be a way to manually enter some code but haven't gone down that road yet.

They prefer you use the wifi method, but you can still activate by phone. They want you to connect to customers wifi to get them using the Generac app. I very rarely used the wifi activation.

 

[Birken Vogt]

They prefer you use the wifi method, but you can still activate by phone. They want you to connect to customers wifi to get them using the Generac app. I very rarely used the wifi activation.

It seems like usually I can't get their controller to connect to the customer wifi for whatever reason anyway.

 

[brantmacga]

I would run a jumper at the generator and be done with it. No need to run a jumper at the ATS, the neutral on the SACM goes right back to the main neutral bar anyway.

I installed a new 24kw at my parents house today and this is exactly what I did. I don’t remember the last Generac I installed having that separate neutral for the charging circuit.

 

[brantmacga]

It seems like usually I can't get their controller to connect to the customer wifi for whatever reason anyway.

I’ve never had good luck getting them on the WiFi either. Most people just have a wireless router in the middle of the house and getting good signal outside can be difficult.

 

[Birken Vogt]

I mostly have problems getting the app to work and getting it to connect to anything, even if the signal is strong. Incredible time waster.

 

[BackCountry]

I just want to say that this thread was incredibly helpful, thank you. We do a fair amount of off grid solar. I've had two sites in the last month report generator start failures with dead batteries. I've been installing Generac air cooled 14kw-22kw generators for years and never had to connect a separate neutral. Now we know that you do, I suppose I should have re-read the wiring diagram! That nice little white T0 didn't catch my eye. Just got one site back up today, let's hope the battery wasn't smoked. Thank you!

 

[Birken Vogt]

No Generac is listed for use off grid. You should be installing the Kohler 14. It is a true off grid generator.

 

[BackCountry]

No Generac is listed for use off grid. You should be installing the Kohler 14. It is a true off grid generator.

Take a look at the 7163.