General Wiring?

[Mvillines]

What is considered as being ?general wiring?? Would this include all Branch circuits, Taps, Feeders, and Service Conductors? Premises Wiring?

 

[ibew441dc]

Good Question!!

Good Question!!

What is considered as being “general wiring”?

90.3 Code Arrangement
.....Chapters 1, 2, 3, and 4 apply generally.....

110.8 Wiring Methods.
Only wiring methods recognized as suitable are included in this Code. The recognized methods of wiring shall be permitted to be installed in any type of building or occupancy, except as otherwise provided in this Code.

See Chapter 3 and start with Article 300.

 

[ibew441dc]

Would this include all Branch circuits, Taps, Feeders, and Service Conductors? Premises Wiring?

Yes,

Branch Circuits(210), Taps(240), Feeders(215), and Service conductors(230)(all of which are premise wiring(100))

 

[charlie b]

What is considered as being ?general wiring??

Without taking anything away from the other replies, I feel the need to ask how this question arose. In what context are you seeing the phrase "general wiring"? I think the answer might depend on the context of the question.

 

[Mvillines]

Charlie you are correct.

Attached is a photo of a transfer switch, yes there are several problems other than the transfer switch not being service rated. But, I want to focus on the pull box containing service conductors and non-service conductors. 230.7 references raceways shall not contain service and non-service conductors. First, is the pull box a raceway? Second, the one that left egg on my face (that?s the way I felt) when the electrician opened his code book to section 702.9 stating optional standby system wiring shall be permitted to occupy the same raceways, cables, boxes, and cabinets with other general wiring. He showed me this section after asking what is considered to be ?general wiring?.

The only explanation I could think of at the time, that this was in contrast with section 700.9 where Emergency systems are to be kept entirely independent of all other wiring and equipment??. Meaning the optional standby system could occupy the same wiring methods as other wiring except service conductors.

His answer, WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT!!!!!

Is this another one of those sections where the CMP accepts the intent but inserts the language to could represent something different?

Please give me your list of violations as best you can make from the photo.

Photo Pull Box ? on right are service conductors, left are feeder conductors from optional standby generator.

View attachment 3165

 

[charlie b]

. . . the optional standby system could occupy the same wiring methods as other wiring except service conductors. His answer, WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT!!!!!

If there are two or more rules that apply to an installation, then you have to comply with all of them. If one seems to allow something, but another forbids it, then you can?t do it. So if 702.9 says that OSB wires and other ?general wiring? can share a raceway, while 230.7 forbids putting service conductors and other conductors in the same raceway, then you cannot put service conductors and OSB conductors in the same raceway. That is the answer to the electrician?s question

First, is the pull box a raceway?

I have to say no. Looking at the Article 100 definition of ?raceway,? I think a pull box does not fit the description. So in the present case, I would say that this is not a violation of 230.7

 

[Mvillines]

If there are two or more rules that apply to an installation, then you have to comply with all of them. If one seems to allow something, but another forbids it, then you can?t do it. So if 702.9 says that OSB wires and other ?general wiring? can share a raceway, while 230.7 forbids putting service conductors and other conductors in the same raceway, then you cannot put service conductors and OSB conductors in the same raceway. That is the answer to the electrician?s question

I don?t believe the intent is to allow service conductors and OSB conductors in the same raceway.

When you have two code rules for an installation then section 90.3 allows Chapter 7 to modify Chapter 2.

 

[LarryFine]

If you want more ammunition, ask him about the separation of EGC's and neutrals in the breaker panel.

I see the incoming service is only 3-wire, implying no main disco ahead of the T/S, and the generator feeder is 4-wire.

I also notice the bare service neutral floating menacingly over the barrier terminal strip; where do the small wires go?

 

[charlie b]

I don?t believe the intent is to allow service conductors and OSB conductors in the same raceway.

I agree. I said nothing to the contrary.

When you have two code rules for an installation then section 90.3 allows Chapter 7 to modify Chapter 2.

It allows it. But that doesn?t mean that it will ever happen. In this specific instance, I would say that nothing in 702.9 has modified the prohibition (in 230.7) against service conductors sharing a raceway with anything else.

I believe the entire issue will boil down to the OP?s question,

First, is the pull box a raceway?

I have already offered my opinion on this question.