Generator disconnect

[tom baker]

It’s lockable for the same reason we lock out a motor or transformer. A lockout device can be easily added to the generator breaker.

 

[mopowr steve]

Okay.
I believe when the code says lockable, it's a reference to OSHAs lockout/tagout. Neither the generator breaker nor the cover have means of locking it out, of placing a physical lock on it.
Therefore, a disconnect is called for by Code.
If it's on the conductors between the generator and the transfer switch, what is it for? To work on the transfer switch safely?
The only reason I could come up with is a fire situation, and the generator is running, and the fire department can disconnect the generator from the building. But they would fist get to the switchgear/main to disconnect normal power,as they would if the building didn't have a generator.
But then why have it lockable? As I said , that is usually a requirement for servicing equipment.

Ok, so for example some generators have a plastic lid on the side of the generator where the feeder breaker resides to which has a metal tab with hole in it for a lock, even a pad lock for lock out tag out. Would this qualify?
So, as far as a disconnect for the fire department, then what was all this work for on putting these little kill switches (one on the back of the generator, one on the inside of generator and in some cases even in the ATS).?

 

[tom baker]

Not sure about your example, but if for example the generator breaker is a sq d qo there are lockout devices for that and all breakers
The. EPO button and lockout are for different reasons. If I am working on the TS I want the generator cb locked out.

 

[tom baker]

Ok, so for example some generators have a plastic lid on the side of the generator where the feeder breaker resides to which has a metal tab with hole in it for a lock, even a pad lock for lock out tag out. Would this qualify?
So, as far as a disconnect for the fire department, then what was all this work for on putting these little kill switches (one on the back of the generator, one on the inside of generator and in some cases even in the ATS).?

What does your AHJ say about the device you describe in the first paragraph?

 

[mopowr steve]

What does your AHJ say about the device you describe in the first paragraph?

I’m mostly in bumpkin country no AHJ but me

 

[tom baker]

Then you are the AHJ

 

[Danielt]

Ok, so for example some generators have a plastic lid on the side of the generator where the feeder breaker resides to which has a metal tab with hole in it for a lock, even a pad lock for lock out tag out. Would this qualify?
So, as far as a disconnect for the fire department, then what was all this work for on putting these little kill switches (one on the back of the generator, one on the inside of generator and in some cases even in the ATS).?

I would say yes, it's a lockable disconnect. Does it satisfy the 445.18A ? I would say yes.
So the intent of this code is that if the generator does not have a locking tab, a separate disconnect which is lockable is required? What is the purpose? A comment mentioned working on the ATS, when do you ever do that after installation? And the odds of the generator coming on while you're in the ATS?
I just think the intent of this code is unclear, and it could be written better

 

[tom baker]

I agree with Don, the language is very clear on what is required for a lockable disconnect

Lockout devices are for worker safety.

 

[hillbilly1]

I would say yes, it's a lockable disconnect. Does it satisfy the 445.18A ? I would say yes.
So the intent of this code is that if the generator does not have a locking tab, a separate disconnect which is lockable is required? What is the purpose? A comment mentioned working on the ATS, when do you ever do that after installation? And the odds of the generator coming on while you're in the ATS?
I just think the intent of this code is unclear, and it could be written better

Odds are good, same way with EMS, anything automatic may energize at any time.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Ok, so for example some generators have a plastic lid on the side of the generator where the feeder breaker resides to which has a metal tab with hole in it for a lock, even a pad lock for lock out tag out. Would this qualify?
So, as far as a disconnect for the fire department, then what was all this work for on putting these little kill switches (one on the back of the generator, one on the inside of generator and in some cases even in the ATS).?

I am not going to accept that...the locking device has to be on the actual operating handle of the disconnecting means, either the breaker handle or the disconnect switch handle.

 

[steve66]

I'm trying to understand the code reference from the op , and my previous comment. Everyone is hung up on the locking aspect, I'm wondering about the purpose or point of having a disconnect. Does the breaker in the generator fill the need for a disconnect in 445.18?

445.18(B) might be another option to comply. The paragraph after (2) says

The provisions to shut down the prime mover shall be permitted to satisfy the requirements of 445.18(A) where...

I read this as saying you can have some other type of "mechanical" lockout for the generator instead of a lockable disconnect.