Generator Feeding House Panel.

Status
Not open for further replies.
D

Dario

Member
Location
Boynton Beach, Florida
Occupation
Retired Contractor
Hello:
60 Volts Neutral to Ground?
I have a 200 amp in my garage which I want to feed with my Honda Generator.
I just want to feed some lights and refrigerator, that is it. Don't want to run extensions.
I have an interlock, also installed 30 amp twist n lock receptacle under panel connected to the panel.
My Honda is an inverter and has a floating neutral, and when I test hot to neutral, I get 120 volts.
When I test neutral to ground I get 60 volts, same with hot to ground, 60 volts.
If I plug my tester it says missing ground only.
If I plug anything to it, it has no problem feeding power.
Question is, If I feed directly or use a transfer switch what happens with the neutral?
Would those 60 volts that I read from the generator would go back to utilities neutral?
My panel has a non-grounded neutral because the meter and main disconnect is outside in another box.
Thank you very much.
 
Bet your generator is 120 volt only and not 120/240. Probably does have a mid point that leaves you with 60 and 60. Never seen such a beast but sounds possible.
 
Hello Kwired:
Yes, it is 120-volt generator, I read other forums with people experiencing the same thing with Honda gen.
It is not something I just can try to see if it works, I need to be sure.
Thank you.
 
Dario said:
Hello:
60 Volts Neutral to Ground?
I have a 200 amp in my garage which I want to feed with my Honda Generator.
I just want to feed some lights and refrigerator, that is it. Don't want to run extensions.
I have an interlock, also installed 30 amp twist n lock receptacle under panel connected to the panel.
My Honda is an inverter and has a floating neutral, and when I test hot to neutral, I get 120 volts.
When I test neutral to ground I get 60 volts, same with hot to ground, 60 volts.
If I plug my tester it says missing ground only.
If I plug anything to it, it has no problem feeding power.
Question is, If I feed directly or use a transfer switch what happens with the neutral?
Would those 60 volts that I read from the generator would go back to utilities neutral?
My panel has a non-grounded neutral because the meter and main disconnect is outside in another box.
Thank you very much.
Click to expand...
Your panel neutral is grounded, its just at the service disconnect, then seperated to the panel. No, 60 volts will not go back to the utility. The "floating" neutral will not be floating once your plugged into the 30 amp twist lock, unless for some strange reason you have a three pole transferswitch, but if you are using a main breaker interlock, that would not be the case.
 
hillbilly1 said:
BTW, Honda has been known to have GFCI protection built in, and if it does, it will not work with a panel interlock.
Click to expand...
This is true, if there is GFCI or even neutral/ground fault detection in the inverter circuitry you are out of luck other than to have a transfer switch that also switches the neutral with the main/system bonding jumper being ahead of that transfer switch.
 
Please tell me that you installed an INlet, and that you do NOT have a cord with two male ends!

Hello Larry:
When I was younger and crazier I did that a few times but not now, I want to have my house as "Clean" as I can, besides it looks better.
Thank you.
 
This is true, if there is GFCI or even neutral/ground fault detection in the inverter circuitry you are out of luck other than to have a transfer switch that also switches the neutral with the main/system bonding jumper being ahead of that transfer switch.

Hello Kwired;
Thank you for your answer and I'm not challenging your answer, it is just that I like learning (I will stop when I die), but what is the difference between having an extension from the generator to the refrigerator than connecting that dedicated circuit In the panel itself with an interlock?
I can see that having a transfer switch with a neutral disconnect would be ideal, the circuit would be totally isolated, but it would be too expensive to just watch TV and have some lights in an emergency. The last hurricane my power was out for only 14 hours.
I Never had an inverter generator in the past either.
As I said, I'm very analytical and that is why I love learning, I'm not shy to admit it if I don't know something, so I would like your answer (Or anybody else's)
Also, any suggestions?
Thank you very much
DARIO
 
Dario said:
The last hurricane my power was out for only 14 hours.
Click to expand...
14 hours is go to bed and wake up with the power back on.

When the remains of Hurricane Ike sailed through Northern KY I lost power for a week! Got a lot of sleep; read a lot of books. Fortunately, we just got the wind; no rain. But the stuff in the icebox was used up as fast as possible; lost a little bit of stuff.
 
I suggest placing a small resistive load like an incadescent bulb across the neutral and ground terminals of the generator receptacle. Then verify that the voltage between hot and neutral is still near 120V, which would show that there's not a GFCI function which would trip under this condition. Also measure the voltage from neutral to ground (i.e., across the applied load). If this voltage is near zero it means that the inverter line and neutral outputs are floating relative to the ground terminal, and that the 60V L-G and 60V N-G was probably due to equal L-G and N-G capacitances evenly spitting the line and neutral voltages relative to ground.

If the testing above shows that the inverter line and neutral outputs are floating relative to equipment ground, then the neutral to ECG bond in the service will not prevent you from using an interlocked breaker to transfer power sources. If the measured N-G voltage is still substantial with the applied load across these terminals then the generator output is not floating. In this case you could use an isolation transformer to provide a floating output that you can connect to your panel.
 
Dario said:
This is true, if there is GFCI or even neutral/ground fault detection in the inverter circuitry you are out of luck other than to have a transfer switch that also switches the neutral with the main/system bonding jumper being ahead of that transfer switch.

Hello Kwired;
Thank you for your answer and I'm not challenging your answer, it is just that I like learning (I will stop when I die), but what is the difference between having an extension from the generator to the refrigerator than connecting that dedicated circuit In the panel itself with an interlock?
I can see that having a transfer switch with a neutral disconnect would be ideal, the circuit would be totally isolated, but it would be too expensive to just watch TV and have some lights in an emergency. The last hurricane my power was out for only 14 hours.
I Never had an inverter generator in the past either.
As I said, I'm very analytical and that is why I love learning, I'm not shy to admit it if I don't know something, so I would like your answer (Or anybody else's)
Also, any suggestions?
Thank you very much
DARIO
Click to expand...
The difference is your generator apparently has 60/120 three wire output instead of 120 two wire or 120/240 three wire, and is likely has GFCI built in somehow whether conventional GFCI or some protection built into the inverter. If you ground that midpoint and then also have a bond on the "white conductor" (technically not a neutral to the generator) because your premises neutral is bonded to the EGC back at the service you will have return current on the EGC and that will result in tripping that GFCI function, whatever it may be. This why you would need to switch the neutral conductor in whatever your transfer method is so you isolate it from the bonding jumper in the service equipment, you also need to eliminate any unintentional neutral to ground bonds that might be present that normally don't show themselves but will when you connect this generator in this way.
 
Hello everybody:
I just want to post an update on this situation.
I won't go into a lot of details but, it works just fine, I followed the "supposed to be" neutral which was carrying 60 volts and once I connected it to the neutral bus in the panel, the other leg, which should be the HOT and it was 60 volts, it became a nice, very steady 120 volt and therefore being able to feed the panel.
Also it interesting to note that this generator has GFI protection and with this connection didn't trip at all.
I tested everything, appliances, fans, TV computer and it was just fine and GFI Tester tells me that the connection is correct.
I want to thank all of you for participating in this and your help.
I guess, it is true on what they say, "you never stop learning"
Thank you guys and stay healthy.
Cheers.
DARIO
 
Dario said:
Hello everybody:
I just want to post an update on this situation.
I won't go into a lot of details but, it works just fine, I followed the "supposed to be" neutral which was carrying 60 volts and once I connected it to the neutral bus in the panel, the other leg, which should be the HOT and it was 60 volts, it became a nice, very steady 120 volt and therefore being able to feed the panel.
Also it interesting to note that this generator has GFI protection and with this connection didn't trip at all.
I tested everything, appliances, fans, TV computer and it was just fine and GFI Tester tells me that the connection is correct.
I want to thank all of you for participating in this and your help.
I guess, it is true on what they say, "you never stop learning"
Thank you guys and stay healthy.
Cheers.
DARIO
Click to expand...
I looked up the model and owners manual, it does have a floating neutral, but no mention of ground fault protection. I also looked at the wiring diagram, and no ground fault protection is shown on it either. Only circuit breakers. My uncle's was much larger, and had a shunt trip breaker powered by the ground fault detector. I had to disconnect the shunt trip wire before we could power the pavillion which was stand alone with ground rods, and only an existing three wire overhead drop to generator shack.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top