generator install

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donselectric

Senior Member
Location
nh
hi all
i had someone ask me if i could do this, i didnt have the answer. at first i said
sure but now i'm not so sure.
hook one generator to say a 6 or 8 ckt gentran to feed
a two family by nippling the panels together and installing the gentran
in one panel...
thanks :confused:
 
First it's not clear as to what type of service your talking about, you stated 2-family?

ok is this a duplex sharing a common electric meter?

or is this separate meters and billing.

allot will depend on this as to what you can do or change.

also each tenant has to have access to his/hers own OCPD's 240.24(B), you can not make a change that would not allow this.

let us know what type of service?
 
Don, you do understand that one service will be supplying all of the generator loads when not on generator power, too, right?
 
You will not be able to do this and let me explain why. If you look at this from only the emergency mode it would seem that you could get this to work (electrically speaking). One generator would be supplying common power to selected circuits in both breaker panels and who cares who's paying for the gas to operte the generator. However, in the normal (POCO) mode only one panel can provide power to the Gentran panel. That means either tenant 1 or tenant 2 is paying for power to 3 or 4 circuits that the other tenant is using. If you're getting this inspected and if your inspector is worth his salt I don't believe he will allow this.
 
goldstar said:
You will not be able to do this and let me explain why. If you look at this from only the emergency mode it would seem that you could get this to work (electrically speaking). One generator would be supplying common power to selected circuits in both breaker panels and who cares who's paying for the gas to operte the generator. However, in the normal (POCO) mode only one panel can provide power to the Gentran panel. That means either tenant 1 or tenant 2 is paying for power to 3 or 4 circuits that the other tenant is using. If you're getting this inspected and if your inspector is worth his salt I don't believe he will allow this.
Click to expand...


I agree with this statement. To take it a step further, if the POCO finds this arrangement, maybe through a complaint from their customer, there could be a fine and backcharge to the electrical contractor who installed this setup.
Not all POCOs are the same, but our POCO will definitely fine someone.
 
I did a common generator once but it was supplied from a house gas meter, and used transfer switches at each unit to transfer each unit to the generator. but you don't find to many landlords that generous, to supply a generator, and pay for the fuel. it was a 20kw also, and both tenants' were elderly, I thought it was a nice gesture.:D
 
ok let me try to explain better..
two meters. one gen to a gentran 8cir trans sw
thought was to take 4 circuits from each panel to trans switch
either by nippling the panles or a 6x6 between panels.
this is not a whole house switch but 4 circuits.
the only thing would be that circuits from each tenants panel
would be together in the same enclosure...

thanks
 
goldstar,
the gentran is just switches so if it were on street power
it would get its feed from that circuits breaker and when no power
u would switch manually to gen so i dont see where everything would be on
on panel... unless i'm missing something...
i know this makes no difference but it's one family living in this duplex
thanks
 
That's true. Normal power comes from individual wires on those panels, and they also normally leave the grounded conductors on the original bus.

The generator's neutral conductor ties into the panel's neutral bus. That would have to be run into both.

Another issue might be that both panels must be accessed to deenergize the T/S.
 
donselectric said:
ok let me try to explain better..
two meters. one gen to a gentran 8cir trans sw
thought was to take 4 circuits from each panel to trans switch
either by nippling the panles or a 6x6 between panels.
this is not a whole house switch but 4 circuits.
the only thing would be that circuits from each tenants panel
would be together in the same enclosure...

thanks
Click to expand...

The problem with having two meters is the law will treat each meter as a cash register, without having a separation of circuits from these two services the POCO could say power is being stolen or could be stolen.

even though one family is using both units, an agreement would have to be allowed by the serving utility before such kind of cross wiring could ever be allowed.

the only way I could see this as a compliant install would be if you was to install two of these transfer panels, one in each unit, where only the generator supply would be common in each transfer panel but each transfer panel would have only the circuits for that unit in it.

The problem is even tho its under common control now, there is no recourse for a building department to require corrections if at a later time this family was to try to rent out one of the units. so unless both units were rewired to allow one meter to supply both units, I would require two transfer panels to keep each units wiring seperate to each unit.
 
LarryFine said:
Wayne, wouldn't all of this be after the meters?
Click to expand...

Of course, that is the whole reason they have to be kept separate.

These little generator transfer panels have a transfer breaker for each circuit, each circuit has a conductor from the breaker that fed the branch circuit and one to reconnect to the branch circuit feeding the load, so by using only one panel he would have to bring in circuits from both service panels into this transfer panel thus mixing circuits from both metered services in one location thus allowing for possible theft. I could not see a building department allowing such an installation, and or the POCO for that mater, as there would be no control over future renting of the units, as a building department would not have the authority to make them change it later if the units was to be rented out at a later date. having two transfer switches would solve this, with the only common between the two units being the generator feed to each transfer panel. metered conductors have to be kept secure to each unit, there would be a great liability if not.

this is one of the main reasons utility's don't allow two meters to serve one building, bump up the voltage on one service and back feed the other and you will have one service with a meter running backward.
 
hurk27 said:
. . . he would have to bring in circuits from both service panels into this transfer panel thus mixing circuits from both metered services in one location thus allowing for possible theft.
Click to expand...
Gotcha, you mean theft between residents, not from the POCO.
 
donselectric said:
goldstar,
the gentran is just switches so if it were on street power
it would get its feed from that circuits breaker and when no power
u would switch manually to gen so i dont see where everything would be on
on panel... unless i'm missing something...
Click to expand...
I know the Gentran panel you're describing and you could get this to work (electrically speaking) but in practicality you'll run into an inspection problem nippling both panels together. I would take Hurk's suggestion and install two separate Gentran panels. It won't matter how each panel is fed from a gas generator as long as both parties agree on who's paying for the gas.
i know this makes no difference but it's one family living in this duplex
thanks
Click to expand...
It might not seem to matter who's paying for the electricity now but it will when they try to sell the house as a duplex.
 
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