Getting attention of operator..

Status
Not open for further replies.
ptonsparky

ptonsparky

Tom
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
Checked up on latest project to see how/if everthing was working. Operators said everything great. OK. Went to office to speak with manager & confirm fuel usage when I noticed the office HMI indicated low boiler pressure since 10:10 AM. It was 2:30 PM. A buzzer load enough to wake the dead sounds every 15 minutes on active alarms. The alarm message has to be confirmed when it first pops up. What else can I do to get their attention?
 
ptonsparky said:
Checked up on latest project to see how/if everthing was working. Operators said everything great. OK. Went to office to speak with manager & confirm fuel usage when I noticed the office HMI indicated low boiler pressure since 10:10 AM. It was 2:30 PM. A buzzer load enough to wake the dead sounds every 15 minutes on active alarms. The alarm message has to be confirmed when it first pops up. What else can I do to get their attention?
Click to expand...

Fire one of them
 
zog said:
Fire one of them
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I was thinking. If they aren't doing their job, axe them. Shouldn't take long for the remaining ones to catch on to the idea.

Edit: Their attention isn't the problem. If they're ignoring a buzzer and a strobe light, nothing else will help along those lines. They need some motivation.
 
I totally disagree with what has been suggested so far. Either that, or I totally misunderstand the situation. :cool:

If there is an active alarm condition, one that cannot be cleared until some maintenance work is done, and if because of that fact the ability of the annunciator system to alert an operator of a new and different alarm condition has been compromised, then you have an unacceptable operational situation. It is not just an operator problem. It is an equipment problem. The annunciator system is not capable of doing its job.

I believe there should be a way to disable the standing alarm signal. Force the annunciator system to be unaware of that condition, so that that condition does not initiate an alarm. Hang a tag or use some other control mechanism to ensure the operator’s awareness of the fact that that alarm signal is disabled. Then the annunciator system will be able to alert the operator of new problems, and the operators will have the mindset that a new alarm means something new has gone wrong.
 
charlie b said:
I totally disagree with what has been suggested so far. Either that, or I totally misunderstand the situation. :cool:

If there is an active alarm condition, one that cannot be cleared until some maintenance work is done, and if because of that fact the ability of the annunciator system to alert an operator of a new and different alarm condition has been compromised, then you have an unacceptable operational situation. It is not just an operator problem. It is an equipment problem. The annunciator system is not capable of doing its job.

I believe there should be a way to disable the standing alarm signal. Force the annunciator system to be unaware of that condition, so that that condition does not initiate an alarm. Hang a tag or use some other control mechanism to ensure the operator?s awareness of the fact that that alarm signal is disabled. Then the annunciator system will be able to alert the operator of new problems, and the operators will have the mindset that a new alarm means something new has gone wrong.
Click to expand...

That is exactly what led to the 3 mile island accident.
 
Don't know what industry your in, but a lot of these guys are union, good luck in firing one. I think it would be more appropriate to first, make sure the alarm is working properly, and that the operator isn't silencing it because they know it is giving them a bad reading/indication. Then, if all is functionally well, then the operator needs some one on one discussion and additional training, including what the effects of a boiler blowing up are. If it happens again, write him up, and probation, then happens again, show them the door.

Remember, not everything is as it first seems.
 
kingpb said:
Don't know what industry your in, but a lot of these guys are union, good luck in firing one. I think it would be more appropriate to first, make sure the alarm is working properly, and that the operator isn't silencing it because they know it is giving them a bad reading/indication. Then, if all is functionally well, then the operator needs some one on one discussion and additional training, including what the effects of a boiler blowing up are. If it happens again, write him up, and probation, then happens again, show them the door.

Remember, not everything is as it first seems.
Click to expand...

If it is a safety violation it can be done, may be painstakingly hard, but it can be done.
 
kingpb said:
Don't know what industry your in, but a lot of these guys are union, good luck in firing one. I think it would be more appropriate to first, make sure the alarm is working properly, and that the operator isn't silencing it because they know it is giving them a bad reading/indication. Then, if all is functionally well, then the operator needs some one on one discussion and additional training, including what the effects of a boiler blowing up are. If it happens again, write him up, and probation, then happens again, show them the door.

Remember, not everything is as it first seems.
Click to expand...

I am an independent electrical contractor and have no authority to fire. Non union. Help of any kind is still very hard to find in this area. Alarm is working properly and as operators requested it to work. I had a discussion again this morning when we temped a way around the standing alarm. I could have it email the President of the corp a message but he wasn't real keen on that offer once before.
 
ptonsparky said:
I am an independent electrical contractor and have no authority to fire. Non union. Help of any kind is still very hard to find in this area. Alarm is working properly and as operators requested it to work. I had a discussion again this morning when we temped a way around the standing alarm. I could have it email the President of the corp a message but he wasn't real keen on that offer once before.
Click to expand...

Just have it e-mail him next time the alarm has been ignored by the operators for 4 hours. :)
 
Is your anunciator capable of producing different tones? If so simutanious or particularly critical alarms could be asigned tones that differ from event to event. This idea could be extended to the strobes as well.
 
charlie b said:
I totally disagree with what has been suggested so far. Either that, or I totally misunderstand the situation. :cool:

If there is an active alarm condition, one that cannot be cleared until some maintenance work is done, and if because of that fact the ability of the annunciator system to alert an operator of a new and different alarm condition has been compromised, then you have an unacceptable operational situation. It is not just an operator problem. It is an equipment problem. The annunciator system is not capable of doing its job.

I believe there should be a way to disable the standing alarm signal. Force the annunciator system to be unaware of that condition, so that that condition does not initiate an alarm. Hang a tag or use some other control mechanism to ensure the operator?s awareness of the fact that that alarm signal is disabled. Then the annunciator system will be able to alert the operator of new problems, and the operators will have the mindset that a new alarm means something new has gone wrong.
Click to expand...

Agree. There have been numerous studies to determine the amount of alarms an operator can reasonably respond too. Once any alarm is considered to be normal it conditions the operators to ignore all the others. If a plant does not do a good job of correctly prioritizing alarms and ensuring nuisance alarms are disabled then the entire alarm system may as well not exist.
 
hardworkingstiff said:
Put magnetic locks on the break room and have any alarm lock the break room until the condition is fixed. :grin:

Also, have the coffee pot disabled under an alarm condition.
Click to expand...

Now we're talking severe action! and relatively simple because it is only a few feet away.

The frustrating part of this is the operators had input has to what they wanted and how the system would react under various conditions. Quiet seems to be the biggest attention getter because if they ignore the wrong message the place gets real quiet.
 
The suggestion above of emailing the CEO may not be the worst idea; if an important alarm stays outstanding for too long a simple note email saying that the plant is at risk of a $xxx,xxx screwup becuase the system continues to be operated in error state, and no-one is doing anything about it.

That action might actually bring about the correct action, which has been stated several times, and involves a human upgrade.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top