Getting beat up

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xjfam said:
Anyone ever have issues with a G.C. telling you there is not enough in the job for your price and that you need to rework the price. Then come back and ask for time and material and a material list because your new price was still not good enough. They are really beating me up and I think I need to walk away, even though I would like to get more work.
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Don't play games with these guys. Bid the prints and come up with a fair price that you can live with. You are going to be the low bidder or your not. How is giving the GC "time and material and a material list" going to change your price? All it shows me is that he doesn't trust you or your pricing strategy.
 
A guy asked me for a bid one time and I gave it to him. He looks at it and then asks me what my hourly rate was, I told him it was none of his business. He asked for a bid and I gave it to him. If he wanted to know my hourly rate he should have asked for T&M.
 
Within the last two weeks two separate GC's had asked me a couple of very irritating questions.

One GC asked two weeks ago how much to hook up his subpanel and circuits in an shop addition he built and wired himself. He even told me he consulted another electrician on how to wire the shop and feed the sub panel. By his description he did not run an equiptment ground to the sub panel. I told him that that would have to be corrected before it was energized he became defensive and told me he would do it himself.

A week later a GC approached me and asked me how much I would charge him to come to his personal home remodel & addition to guide him on wiring it. I told him show me some prints and I would give him a quote on wiring it.
a few days later his son had the nerve to call me on the phone and ask me how he should split up circuits in this 1800 square ft addition that has 4 bedrooms and 2 baths and a family room. I told him to ask the state inspector how to when they file for a Home Owner's Permit

So sorry to rant folks I just need to blow off some steam because an issur like the OP hits close to home for me. The more and more I think about this I am apprehensive to be charitable to GC's that behave like the OP's and the ones in my two examples.

But believe me there are good people out there it's just that the selfish ones stay in your memory.
 
cowboyjwc said:
A guy asked me for a bid one time and I gave it to him. He looks at it and then asks me what my hourly rate was, I told him it was none of his business. He asked for a bid and I gave it to him. If he wanted to know my hourly rate he should have asked for T&M.
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"Whatever it is, it will cost you more than this price by the time I'm done." :cool:
 
I've sometimes had to take something with little or no profit, just to keep spinning my wheels another day and be out there, being seen, etc. We can't always get what we want. But, if you can survive without this GC, just move on. If he's giving you a hard time now, it's only the beginning. He will do any or all of the following and likely some new things too.

Bury your boxes and can lights
Change layouts halfway through the job
Move some of your boxes/wiring himself for these changes
Cut some of your wiring, damage your boxes with routers
Call you to a job that isn't ready for you
Not have materials he said he would provide
Take out permits in your name to do work himself if a low budget job
Complain that you're too slow
Want you to drop everything the minute he calls. Next day is putting him off
Find ways to blame you for all the above

"I never had these problems with my other electricians". Well where are they?
Ask around and find out he couldn't keep electricians or any other subs either.
You don't need that kind of grief. Anyone will get upset sometimes. But someone like that is misery that loves company. He will rob you of any pleasure and satisfaction in your work, keep you awake at night and maybe rip you off too. And if you speed up to please him, he'll complain that your work is getting sloppy.
 
Just a thought. I am a small business and presently work alone. (except for summer and weekends when I use my teenage son to help me) One thing I have discovered over the years is that electrical "contracting" and electrical "service work" are two very different businesses! It is difficult to keep one van stocked with the tools/materials for both. I call myself an "electrical services" provider, not a contractor. I generally don't work with GCs anymore, but have gotten the "run around" over the years by the best of them! Anyway, I'm getting off subject. The couple of GCs that I still work with on remodels, additions, etc. use me on a T&M basis. This is very fair for all involved. They put an allowance for electrical in their bids based on past similar jobs and have something in their contracts to cover their butts if it goes over budget. I'm not going to get rich on a single job, but I'm not going to lose money either. One of my GCs, who I have worked with for 16 years, even provides the materials and fixtures. I give him a list at the end of the day and he has it on-site the next morning! The hourly rate that I give him turns out to be 81% of my normal rate. This gives him some room to make money off of me. If you have worked with them for a while, you may want to sit down and work-up a similar arrangement. Of course, being small allows me to say no to contracting and bidding with GCs, if I had a crew that I was trying to keep busy it would be different!
 
jmellc said:
I've sometimes had to take something with little or no profit, just to keep spinning my wheels another day and be out there, being seen, etc. We can't always get what we want. But, if you can survive without this GC, just move on. If he's giving you a hard time now, it's only the beginning. He will do any or all of the following and likely some new things too.

Bury your boxes and can lights
Change layouts halfway through the job
Move some of your boxes/wiring himself for these changes
Cut some of your wiring, damage your boxes with routers
Call you to a job that isn't ready for you
Not have materials he said he would provide
Take out permits in your name to do work himself if a low budget job
Complain that you're too slow
Want you to drop everything the minute he calls. Next day is putting him off
Find ways to blame you for all the above

"I never had these problems with my other electricians". Well where are they?
Ask around and find out he couldn't keep electricians or any other subs either.
You don't need that kind of grief. Anyone will get upset sometimes. But someone like that is misery that loves company. He will rob you of any pleasure and satisfaction in your work, keep you awake at night and maybe rip you off too. And if you speed up to please him, he'll complain that your work is getting sloppy.
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Do these kind of GC's go to school to be jerks or is it a natural talent?
 
satcom said:
These are not GC's that you are dealing with, they are just 'want to be' GC's who have no idea on how to estimate a job, most of these guys guess the pricing, and then panic and expect all the subs, to come down to some un real pricing, try not to waste your time on their games, find a decent GC to deal with, they are out there, and many of them will help you, if you are a good EC.
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SATCOM is 100% Correct. Think about most "contractors" out there. They are one man shops with no capital, no cash, and no plan. Most of these guys are wannabee's.

I've found myself teaching "GC's" the very basics all the time. Not electrical basics mind you. Things like: don't park in the customers grass, how to pull a permit, you need a bigger gas line if you put that furnace in, how are you going to support that ceiling when you take the wall out, where are your fireblocks, etc. etc.

Our rule is no GC's, period. We have few holdovers from day by gone though which is enough to remind me we never want to go back. "GC's" account for 80% of my time and less than 20% of our revenue. Plus, they account for 90% of our unpaid invoices and no charge call backs.


If your in the sub contracting business (lots of money there if you set-up right) my rule would be to only give terms to real companies with a staffed physical office, etc. For guys in the truck, I would require upfront payment, retainer, or credit to hold.
 
Ohmy said:
No, its just that most of the guys that claim to be GC's are total idiots. The one nice thing about the recession is all the crappy GC's are back swinging hammers or working at HD.
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There have been a few good GC's that I have had the pleasure of working with and they are smaller shops. As I have said the ones that I have a negative experience with just stick in your mind.

In a about 30 day's or so I will be starting the rough in of a good size custom home. No GC involved just working direct with the customer. I have been in close contact with the customer and all the lay out questions have been answered. I told the customer that there is always the possibility they may want to change some thing and that we should just keep a good line of communication open. So far so good. I'm excited about starting the rough in.
I have met the plumber and carpenter they are not from my town. They appear to be professional and freindly.
 
The jobs I really enjoy working on are the remodels that are GC'd by the homeowner's wife's bother in-law's sister's husband's friend who helped his uncle build a barn when he was a kid. And of course he will do all the wiring but wants you to land the home runs in the panel.
 
Ohmy said:
No, its just that most of the guys that claim to be GC's are total idiots. The one nice thing about the recession is all the crappy GC's are back swinging hammers or working at HD.
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You have that right, when the boom was here, everyone with a pick-up and a bucket of tools was playing GC no trade training, no real experience, no insurance, no permits, and a anyone can be a GC outlook, most of them left behind a mess of uncompleted, or sub standard construction, and then there are the GC's that have years of trade experience, and work with professionals, to build a construction company, that will grow and deliver the best, these are the companies you want to work with.
 
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