paul
Senior Member
- Location
- Snohomish, WA
I would make a long distance phone call to the landlord and tell them to make a local phone call to a local electrician who can go out and troubleshoot the issue.
Getting Shocked From a Panel
- Thread starter Little Bill
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Tennessee NEC:2017
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrician
jaylectricity
Senior Member
- Location
- Massachusetts
- Occupation
- licensed journeyman electrician
The confusion is that the landlord is the one who is far away.
I had a similar situation. Landlord wasn't too far away, but he was in Boston and the tenant was in Brockton about 25 miles away. I did a couple of small jobs for him and he mailed me a check. But the last one he didn't send me the check. He called me to say they were still having a problem and if I went over and fixed it he'd send the check.
I went over and they had a couple breakers turned off. Never got the check. Didn't have anything to go on, no address of the landlord or anything.
Lost about $225 on that one. Mostly just my time. I don't think I'll ever work for a long distance landlord again without getting a retainer. Chances are, he won't go for it, but I don't need the work.
I had a similar situation. Landlord wasn't too far away, but he was in Boston and the tenant was in Brockton about 25 miles away. I did a couple of small jobs for him and he mailed me a check. But the last one he didn't send me the check. He called me to say they were still having a problem and if I went over and fixed it he'd send the check.
I went over and they had a couple breakers turned off. Never got the check. Didn't have anything to go on, no address of the landlord or anything.
Lost about $225 on that one. Mostly just my time. I don't think I'll ever work for a long distance landlord again without getting a retainer. Chances are, he won't go for it, but I don't need the work.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Don't touch metal parts when the service neutral is open. That is the safeguard.
I do not see how grounding will really do anything.
Bonding could prevent shocks between say plumbing fixtures and electrical equipment but I see no way to prevent potential between bonded metal parts and the earth.
We really need to know what two points the victims got shocked between to go much further.
- Location
- Tennessee NEC:2017
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrician
We really need to know what two points the victims got shocked between to go much further.
I'll find out tomorrow!
Or not!:lol:
- Location
- Tennessee NEC:2017
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrician
Update........Not What was Described
Update........Not What was Described
Well I got to go check out the "shocking" problem. As I said, I don't like dealing with 3rd party descriptions. It turns out that someone had tried to install a dryer receptacle. When they turned the breaker on for it, the breaker tripped instantly because they had created a direct short when trying to hook it up!:happyyes::roll: I don't think it shocked them at all. It probably just arced and scared the "stuffing" out of them!hmy:
Now the receptacle (duplex in another room) shocking them was probably true. Some intelligent person had put a receptacle in a
"cubby hole" in the living room wall. There was barely enough room to cram it in there and even less room to make the connections.
When I pulled it out, both the screws for the neutrals were loose, the receptacle was cracked, and the EGC was not connected. There were two bare EGCs in there as this was a feed through receptacle but neither one was connected. They hadn't just come loose, they were never connected. So anything other than a line to neutral fault wouldn't have tripped the breaker and could have shocked them.
I did replace the receptacle and properly terminated the wires. There was enough other work in the basement to make it worth my trip. There were several "flying splices" and other non supported wires that I fixed. There was also a cord that looked like it had been cut off a window air conditioner, or similar, that was spliced onto a run of 12-2 NM. It was then plugged into a receptacle in the ceiling of the basement. I traced the wire and it was what was feeding the bathroom upstairs!:slaphead:
So I took that crap apart, including the box & receptacle. I put in a different box, added a GFCI receptacle, and put the NM on the load side to feed the bath.
But nothing "shocking" about the panel!
Update........Not What was Described
Well I got to go check out the "shocking" problem. As I said, I don't like dealing with 3rd party descriptions. It turns out that someone had tried to install a dryer receptacle. When they turned the breaker on for it, the breaker tripped instantly because they had created a direct short when trying to hook it up!:happyyes::roll: I don't think it shocked them at all. It probably just arced and scared the "stuffing" out of them!
hmy:Now the receptacle (duplex in another room) shocking them was probably true. Some intelligent person had put a receptacle in a
"cubby hole" in the living room wall. There was barely enough room to cram it in there and even less room to make the connections.
When I pulled it out, both the screws for the neutrals were loose, the receptacle was cracked, and the EGC was not connected. There were two bare EGCs in there as this was a feed through receptacle but neither one was connected. They hadn't just come loose, they were never connected. So anything other than a line to neutral fault wouldn't have tripped the breaker and could have shocked them.
I did replace the receptacle and properly terminated the wires. There was enough other work in the basement to make it worth my trip. There were several "flying splices" and other non supported wires that I fixed. There was also a cord that looked like it had been cut off a window air conditioner, or similar, that was spliced onto a run of 12-2 NM. It was then plugged into a receptacle in the ceiling of the basement. I traced the wire and it was what was feeding the bathroom upstairs!:slaphead:
So I took that crap apart, including the box & receptacle. I put in a different box, added a GFCI receptacle, and put the NM on the load side to feed the bath.
But nothing "shocking" about the panel!
Looking for the proactive NEC Art No......., Where is it?!
So making a equipotential ground plane around any outdoor metal pole not required; just bond the EGC with the pole; that is all required, correct?
Last edited:
- Location
- Massachusetts
But nothing "shocking" about the panel!
Thanks for the update, we don't get those too often.
- Location
- Massachusetts
[FONT=Georgia, Times, Times New Roman, serif]As noted in 110.7 of the 2011 NEC, "completed wiring installations shall be free from short circuits, ground faults, or any connections to ground other than as required or permitted elsewhere in the Code.", but it does not talk about what to do in advance for a broken POCO neutral outside but very near the building premises. That is what is called pro-activity.[/FONT]
Sure.
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
Proactive would be to create an equipotential plane then remove all sources of electrical power from the building.
- Location
- Massachusetts
The NEC has nothing to do with the power company neutral.
If you have a solution to this please send in a change proposal to the NFPA.
I already suggested to use ground fault protector in the main supply-a proactive approach. But it not even vetted here.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
I already suggested to use ground fault protector in the main supply-a proactive approach. But it not even vetted here.
That would also require running a separate equipment grounding conductor from the utility to the service. Otherwise conductive paths to other services would allow enough leakage to cause nuisance tripping. Any neutral to ground fault takes out the entire service as well. Protection at the branch circuit level may be a better idea.
To some extent not a bad idea. Another idea would be to no longer use the grounded conductor to supply loads, both at the distribution and user levels, but that is not happening any time soon. But there are other POCO anomalies as well and it is difficult to ensure protection from every potential problem that may come up.
- Status