GF indicator lights for delta xfmr secondary

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Guys and girls -
Just some comments/opinions concerning "zog's Red Book":

As all know, the IEEE color book series as well as other IEEE standards are peer reviewed papers on design and installation methods.

Why wouldn't one use them as written if possible? If not possible to use as written, why wouldn't adapt the closest?

Suspose you chose to use another method that "had been used before and it worked" instead of a differing method - one from a peer reviewed standard. And it didn't work as per plan this time? What would be your defensible position?

A good engineer is a good thief (of ideas) - and you always give credit. It isn't plagerism if one cites the source.

Do I get out of the box? Sure - different conversation.

carl
 
coulter said:
zog -
Just a question, not adversarial. What would be the advantage of using PT's over transformered 480V incandescant pilots? They have been suggested by several, as far back as post 7.

carl
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No problem at all, in fact I had to go back and look at that post because I missed the "transformered" part of that suggestion.

I have a problem with the "just hook up a 277V light bulb phase to ground" suggestions.
 
zog said:
Be helpful? Are you kidding me? I think I am the one offering the OP the most help. I think it is absurd that you are giving advice on a system like this in an industrial power system and you have never seen the Red Book.

Zog thanks for the info, i did use your drawing and built the pilot light system with 480v transformed pilot lights. it was very helpful. it was spendy, but got the job done. as to belittling me and others on this forum? if it makes you feel better then im happy for you, but you come across as a, !@#$%, (^*%&$^$. you might concider aquiring some tact to go along with that red book of yours. and no, I dont own a red book either.

Everyone else (iwire etc....) thanks for the input.

Peace Out
Kevin Simpson
Simpson Electrical Construction Co.
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coulter said:
Guys and girls -
Just some comments/opinions concerning "zog's Red Book":

As all know, the IEEE color book series as well as other IEEE standards are peer reviewed papers on design and installation methods.

carl
Click to expand...

Carl,

The IEEE color book series are also adopted ANSI Standards and as such are benchmark minimum for installation. Remember that the NEC is NOT and engineering standard so it can not be used as such. In some cases the NEC yields to engineering calculations, that are based on standard methods accepted by the EE community in the IEEE STandard and nationally sanctioned by being adapted into the ANSI series.
 
wasabivan said:
zog said:
Be helpful? Are you kidding me? I think I am the one offering the OP the most help. I think it is absurd that you are giving advice on a system like this in an industrial power system and you have never seen the Red Book.

Zog thanks for the info, i did use your drawing and built the pilot light system with 480v transformed pilot lights. it was very helpful. it was spendy, but got the job done. as to belittling me and others on this forum? if it makes you feel better then im happy for you, but you come across as a, !@#$%, (^*%&$^$. you might concider aquiring some tact to go along with that red book of yours. and no, I dont own a red book either.

Everyone else (iwire etc....) thanks for the input.

Peace Out
Kevin Simpson
Simpson Electrical Construction Co.
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You are welcome I guess, I wouldnt expect someone in your line of work to use any of the IEEE color books, that comment was directed to the guy who claimed to be an electrical engineer at an industrial plant, I was shocked that a EE wasnt familiar with the IEEE color books, that is like an EC not owning or ever using the NEC IMHO.

As far as me "belittling " you, I dont see how I did that, didnt mean too, dont be so sensititve, your comment above was more of an attack than any other comment in this thread.
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zog said:
As far as me "belittling " you, I dont see how I did that,
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I don't believe for a moment that you are that blind. :smile:

I was shocked that a EE wasnt familiar with the IEEE color books, that is like an EC not owning or ever using
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Not all plant engineers are in fact EEs.
 
iwire said:
I don't believe for a moment that you are that blind. :smile: [QUOTE/]

Well, I had just quit smoking when this thread began, I was a little cranky, but I dont think I was out of line, there were much worse attacks in this same thread by others than myslef.



iwire said:
Not all plant engineers are in fact EEs.
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If they are in charge of the design and maintenance of electrical power systems, that is a sad thing. I have to add not all EC's are qualified to work on power systems.
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iwire said:
...Not all plant engineers are in fact EEs.
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zog said:
...If they are in charge of the design and maintenance of electrical power systems, that is a sad thing. ...
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Bob -
If you mean a BSEE, you're right. Industrial plant management can pick anyone they want and "poof" - you're an engineer (some exceptions apply).

zog -
This is not necessarily sad or bad.

Having a BSEE doesn't mean one knows anything about codes, standards, or design practices - any more than having an unlimited EC license means one has a clue about building service stations, or power system coordination (just two examples)

I never had a single class that covered anything about codes, standards, or design practices. I doubt that has changed much in the last 35 years. The most a BSEE degree means is that one will stick with a task for 4 years, maybe has a decent math background, and possibly as some training in forming problem solutions. And maybe not. About the same as hiring journeymen - the most you know is they spent 8000hrs apprentice and managed to answer enough questions correctly.

BSEE or not, what would be sad is if the management would choose to pick someone without the special knowledge required for the job

zog said:
... I have to add not all EC's are qualified to work on power systems.
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Nope they are not - no more that all engineers are qualified to work power systems.

As iwire said (in one of his movies), "You got to know your limitations":D

carl
 
Use UL-listed Ground Fault Detectors

Use UL-listed Ground Fault Detectors

Hello,
I would recommend buying a UL listed ground detector for ungrounded delta systems from a company. There are a couple people making them. See http://www.bender.org/irdh.aspx as an example.
Also, I believe that the latest IEC standards (IEC61557) do not recommend using a three-light bulb type ground detector for a couple of reasons. The big reason is that a three-light bulb ground detector will not detect a symmetrical ground fault (like conductors in a wet location) because all three-phases will still have approx. the same voltage from line-to-ground. Also, the ground fault has to be significant before you will see a major voltage change.
Good Luck.
 
Joe B said:
Also, I believe that the latest IEC standards (IEC61557) do not recommend using a three-light bulb type ground detector for a couple of reasons. The big reason is that a three-light bulb ground detector will not detect a symmetrical ground fault (like conductors in a wet location) because all three-phases will still have approx. the same voltage from line-to-ground. Also, the ground fault has to be significant before you will see a major voltage change.
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Thanks Joe, that was helpful, instead of just saying 'the red book' you provided some reasons why. Welcome to the forum. :smile:
 
iwire said:
Check the link he provided. :smile:
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I checked the link. I must have missed what you were alluding to. I didn't see anything that showed any science on how they could detect a symetrical insulation leak. Larry's question is a good one.

Perhaps bob or joe could point out where I missed it.

carl
 
coulter said:
I checked the link. I must have missed what you were alluding to. I didn't see anything that showed any science on how they could detect a symetrical insulation leak. Larry's question is a good one.

Perhaps bob or joe could point out where I missed it.

carl
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I did not take Larry's question as how it does it but what can do it.

I don't know the answer to how.
 
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