- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
The 2020 from online does not paste as well as the pdf. I have to clean it up--ugh
Notice the boldface
Notice the boldface
GFCI 2020--UH OH
- Thread starter Dennis Alwon
- Start date
- Status
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
What about other than dwelling units?
winnie
Senior Member
- Location
- Springfield, MA, USA
- Occupation
- Electric motor research
And do we get to do the 'is it one phase or two dance' when feeding from two legs of a residential service 
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
I just shake my head. Ugh.
Had a client this last summer that called me in to help with a number of items as she listed her house for sale. One was the forced air furnace air conditioning condensate pump that is cord and plug connected to a GFCI receptacle outlet.
The forced air furnace / AC / condensate pump were brand new three years ago and installed as part of a basement finishing remodel. The GFCI was new at that same time. Within a year, under the remodeler's warranty, the GFCI and condensate pump were replaced. The homeowner reported that the furnace would run, but even when the thermostat was calling for the AC, the AC was locked out because the condensate reservoir was over-full and the GFCI was tripped.
When I was called in, the AC was again being called for, but not running. Upon investigation I found the GFCI (with only the condensate pump plugged in) to be tripped. I unplugged the pump, tested the GFCI sensitivity and found it would hold 3.0 milliAmps, and trip at 5.0 milliAmps. The pump itself was still the problem. Sigh.
This particular forced air furnace did not have combustion condensate to collect and pump, but a lot of them, in my area, do. I just can't wait for the reports of house-freeze loss to come as we go further into a world stuffed with GFCIs and AFCIs.
Had a client this last summer that called me in to help with a number of items as she listed her house for sale. One was the forced air furnace air conditioning condensate pump that is cord and plug connected to a GFCI receptacle outlet.
The forced air furnace / AC / condensate pump were brand new three years ago and installed as part of a basement finishing remodel. The GFCI was new at that same time. Within a year, under the remodeler's warranty, the GFCI and condensate pump were replaced. The homeowner reported that the furnace would run, but even when the thermostat was calling for the AC, the AC was locked out because the condensate reservoir was over-full and the GFCI was tripped.
When I was called in, the AC was again being called for, but not running. Upon investigation I found the GFCI (with only the condensate pump plugged in) to be tripped. I unplugged the pump, tested the GFCI sensitivity and found it would hold 3.0 milliAmps, and trip at 5.0 milliAmps. The pump itself was still the problem. Sigh.
This particular forced air furnace did not have combustion condensate to collect and pump, but a lot of them, in my area, do. I just can't wait for the reports of house-freeze loss to come as we go further into a world stuffed with GFCIs and AFCIs.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Is there much of a change?
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Much change in non dwelling? Not alot... the bold face has the re-wording or changes
The laundry is new along with shower stalls and bathtubs
jeff48356
Senior Member
- Location
- Livonia, Michigan
...or flooded basements due to the sump pump GFCI receptacle nuisance-tripping. Or cold water due to hi-efficiency water heater vent GFI outlet tripped. The list goes on; it's getting ridiculous! At least I'm glad I don't have to deal with AFCI's at all, since Michigan doesn't require them anywhere.
At the end of the day, the fact still remains that it's not any less safe to live in a house built 25 years ago before all this other GFCI and AFCI b.s. was required than it is to live in a house built today.
Seems like this is going to require 30A 120/240V clothes dryer outlets to be GFCI'd as well as shop 240V receptacles (welders, compressors, large power tools). Has anyone seen these (6-15, 6-20, 14-30) in GFCI receptacle versions, or are we going to have to pay for the expensive double pole GFCI breakers?
romex jockey
Senior Member
- Location
- Vermont
- Occupation
- electrician
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
Also note the review that the "New" breaker was cracked and repaired with epoxy.....
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
I've not heard of, let alone seen, any 120/240, or 240 Volt Class A GFCI devices of any type, yet.
So, yes, Mark, the ridiculously high priced breakers seem to be the only choice, as of now.
romex jockey
Senior Member
- Location
- Vermont
- Occupation
- electrician
One would thing the time honored torroid far from exclusive marketing....~RJ~
mbrooke
Batteries Included
- Location
- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
The one I use is half price:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KTS2N8C/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_8?smid=A36IYZXRPHYKF1&psc=1
romex jockey
Senior Member
- Location
- Vermont
- Occupation
- electrician
If only we could finally adopt descending ma value designs here MBrooke....:happyyes:~RJ~
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
I don't have as much of an issue with the mentioned condensate pumps for HVAC equipment - if they are plugged into a 5-15 or 5-20 receptacle, I am still fairly strong believer in GFCI requirements we have had the past few code cycles. The added 240 volt (150 volt to ground) single as well as three phase requirements I think are pushing it though. How many shock incidents really happen in those applications? Those situations usually don't involve appliance cords or extension cords with missing EGC pins and IMO are pretty safe in comparison to the 5-15 and 5-20 cord caps that regularly one can find with missing EGC pins. That missing EGC pin was sort of the main driving force for GFCI expansion requirements ~30 years ago and made much more sense than the changes today.
Keep in mind a lot of the devices that will be used to comply with some of the changes are made by the same manufacturers that pushed to get AFCI requirements in the code and to expand them.
It is all about $$ and using safety name as a tool to get it.
Keep in mind a lot of the devices that will be used to comply with some of the changes are made by the same manufacturers that pushed to get AFCI requirements in the code and to expand them.
It is all about $$ and using safety name as a tool to get it.
texie
Senior Member
- Location
- Fort Collins, Colorado
- Occupation
- Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
Pardon if this was mentioned already. Take a look at 210.8(F). This would require the typical condensing unit in a dwelling to have GFCI.
hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
They are probably talking about residential burg systems, which usually are powered from a wallwart.
- Status