GFCI/AFCI together in combination?

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throttlebody

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Martinsburg, WV
This is the situation. I have not been able to find any documentation.

Wetbar in the Master bedroom, for instance.

1) AFCI protection of bedroom receptacles are required(210-12(B) Per '99 NEC).

2) GFCI protection of receptacles within 6ft of the sink, serving the countertop is required(210-8(A)(7) Per '99 NEC).

3) Wallspacing - shortened read of requirements - Wallspace measured along the wall and around corners and no more than 18" from walls and maximum hieght 5'6" shall meet the requirements.


This receptacle, installed over the countertop is included in wallspacing, due to it meeting #3 mentioned above.

An electrician excluded this from the the AFCI protected circuit. When questioned why he didn't include this 1 receptacle as one of the AFCI protected outlets, he replied, "Our instructor in class has shown papers that errors will occur with the AFCI breaker when trying to put GFCI in combination with AFCI protection". When asked for the paper, he concluded that the instructor just passed one around for all to read.

These are 2 different technologies.

Has anyone seen any documentation from any testing labs that errors could occur in the AFCI breaker when blending with GFCI protection?
 
Re: GFCI/AFCI together in combination?

"Errors" or not, the code requires the AFCI protection. This is not a design issue. I have witnessed several AFCI circuits installed with GFCI devices and have yet to hear of any reported problems.
 
Re: GFCI/AFCI together in combination?

Yeah, me too. I haven't heard of any problems, but then again, problems aren't reported to inspectors unless there is a revision. Which most likely would come from the BDHA of the state.

The electrician is a straightup shooter with me. I don't think he would lie to me. I think me was misinformed and was just passing along the bogus information.

My interest in this is keeping up to date on things coming our way, is all. It doesn't hurt to ask. :)
 
Re: GFCI/AFCI together in combination?

I have heard (I think in a class) that an AFCI has a GFI mechanism integrated into it.
Am I loco?
 
Re: GFCI/AFCI together in combination?

Joe,
Standard AFCIs have GFP, not GFCI. That is the ground fault trip is 30 to 50 mA in the AFCI, not the 4 to 6 mA required for a GFCI. At least one breaker manufacuter has an AFCI that has a true GFCI as part of the breaker.
Don
 
Re: GFCI/AFCI together in combination?

Thanks Don,
I see you know how to keep an a...... in suspense!

Who makes that nifty breaker?
 
Re: GFCI/AFCI together in combination?

It was taught to me that a wet bar sink does not have to have GFCI protection, only the kitchen sink, bathrooms, outdoors, and one in the basement.Now the entire kitchen excluding the refrigerator has to have the GFCI protection. Please follow up with more insights. If it were my house I would use the GFCI protection on the wet bar.
 
Re: GFCI/AFCI together in combination?

A wet bar sink reqired GFCI in the 2002 NEC, however the 2005 NEC now requires GFCI for all sinks, including laundry room.
 
Re: GFCI/AFCI together in combination?

Thanks so much for the insight.Iwas trying to refer to 1999. Thanks again!!!!
 
Re: GFCI/AFCI together in combination?

What brought back the GFCI requirement for 6 ft within a sink? Required then not now required again :confused:
 
Re: GFCI/AFCI together in combination?

On the AFCI subject, do I need to buy a new plug tester to check if the AFCI is working properly???
 
Re: GFCI/AFCI together in combination?

There is one that is listed as a tester, it is fairly new to the market. We use them. The rest of the ones that were open for purchasing were indicators. We were issued a mandate about 1 year ago that indicators were NOT to be used. We received the testers about 1 month ago.

It isn't a reliable tester from my experience. I turned mine back in, 1 day later, after it malfunctioned. It also heats up after about 4 trips of the AFCI button, which might have caused the malfunction. Others have reported blinking lights, excessive heat and such.
 
Re: GFCI/AFCI together in combination?

Originally posted by Shockedby277v:
Hmm interesting .... How do we know if their working properly then???
Click to expand...
Pressing the test button on the breaker is the only test I was aware of.

Robert, thanks for acknowledging the history of AFCI indicators, it's obvious you're up to speed on this. So, who makes the "Shure-Nuff Barlow" tester you were using? Got a link? :)
 
Re: GFCI/AFCI together in combination?

Shocked, unless there is infact a new recognized tester on the market, the only way to test it is the test button, there is no need to worry about testing at an outlet.

Roger
 
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