Gfci breaker feeding gfci receptacle

[marcosgue]

Hello forum, I know that isn't necessary and I never saw this type of combination of duplicate gfci in the same circuit. This is a new commercial construction there's a panel with gfci breaker feeding a gfci receptacle self test and the breaker is tripping instantaneously, no load connected to receptacle.
Any suggestion why this happen is very appreciated.

 

[augie47]

Please clarify "self test".

 

[infinity]

Sounds like either it's a faulty breaker or there is a wiring error. The two should work together without issue.

 

[marcosgue]

well is my understanding self test mean that the device test the mechanism without any manual action, I seen this feature in some levinton. I've already checked the wires in the circuit and they're in good conditions, uninstall the receptacle and the breaker remain on, but when the gfci receptacle is hook it up the gfci breaker trips instantaneously.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I would remove the gfci breaker if it isn't needed but you could also try another gfci receptacle. I had not heard of this being an issue but maybe a different brand of gfci- Idk

 

[augie47]

agree with others... there is no reason the breaker would trip (the combination is relatively common)...as Dennis suggest, do away with one or try a different receptacle.

 

[Little Bill]

A GFCI breaker wired wrong will set and hold until a load is applied, then it will trip immediatley. I don't know this for certain, but the self-test feature may be enough load to trip the miswired breaker. I would double check the wiring on the breaker. Could just be a ground-to-neutral fault, or since it's in a commercial setting, the neutrals could easily be mixed up if wiring is in conduit. You could do all the checking if you want to find out why it trips. If not, just do away with the GFCI breaker.

 

[macmikeman]

I would remove the gfci breaker if it isn't needed but you could also try another gfci receptacle. I had not heard of this being an issue but maybe a different brand of gfci- Idk

I caution this response. Danger. Replace the gfi receptacle if anything although it is not a requirement. Removing the gfi circuit breaker might end up removing gfi protection from some other outlet load that requires gfi protection someplace else in the circuit. I may be getting senile, but I am not that senile yet.....

 

[marcosgue]

This is a dedicated 20A circuit serving a fridge, I've already changed a new receptacle and this issue still happen, I going to put a regular breaker ahead of the circuit and keep a gfci receptacle. Is common installation the double gfci in the same circuit?can someone give some examples, just to expand my knowledge.

 

[rc/retired]

What code cycle are you under? A GFCI outlet needs to be readily accessible and can't be behind a refrigerator.

Ron

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I caution this response. Danger. Replace the gfi receptacle if anything although it is not a requirement. Removing the gfi circuit breaker might end up removing gfi protection from some other outlet load that requires gfi protection someplace else in the circuit. I may be getting senile, but I am not that senile yet.....

I think senility has hit-----My comment said remove the gfci if it isn't needed.

 

[James L]

This is a dedicated 20A circuit serving a fridge, I've already changed a new receptacle and this issue still happen, I going to put a regular breaker ahead of the circuit and keep a gfci receptacle. Is common installation the double gfci in the same circuit?can someone give some examples, just to expand my knowledge.

I've done it accidentally quite a few times, without incident.

I do residential work, but here are a few

Just wired a house with elevator. In the shaft I have 2 gfci receptacles. When I installed breakers, I inadvertently put that circuit on a dual function breaker (afci/gfci). No problems.

I've also inadvertently done the same with exterior gfci receptacles added onto a bedroom circuit that was already on a dual function breaker.

In your case, I would suggest swapping the receptacle to non-gfci

 

[hbiss]

This is a dedicated 20A circuit serving a fridge,

And there are those here who have a fit putting the fridge on ONE GFCI. Why would you want two??

-Hal

 

[electrofelon]

And there are those here who have a fit putting the fridge on ONE GFCI. Why would you want two??

-Hal

Probably the majority of electricians and engineers these days want a second, redundant ground fault current path (a wire EGC), and I have always wondered why these people never seem to want a second redundant GFCI or OCPD.

 

[marcosgue]

This coming from the design in plans and I agree that the gfci have to be readily accessible and not make sense two gfci in this case, I think if every aspect of installation work properly with adequate maintenance in most cases the circuit do not need duplicate a ground fault protection, finally swap to non-gfci receptacle would be better option. Thanks for all replies

 

[Jraef]

The “self test” feature required on all GFCI receptacles made after 2015 does NOT trip the receptacle like a plug-in tester does. So it should not be causing the GFCI breaker to trip.

GFCI breakers are also required to have a self test feature, and if they fail, they trip.

But more likely this is an issue with the fridge and if it seems random after sone time, that usually points to the defroster circuit. The defrost evaporator heater can get “leaky” when moisture gets around the coils. But it only trips the GFCI when the defrost timer turns them on. The GFCI breaker might be more sensitive than the GFCI receptacles are. I would just put in a standard breaker.

 

[mopowr steve]

It could have been faulty MOV’s in the GFCI receptacle causing it

 

[qcroanoke]

The “self test” feature required on all GFCI receptacles made after 2015 does NOT trip the receptacle like a plug-in tester does. So it should not be causing the GFCI breaker to trip.

GFCI breakers are also required to have a self test feature, and if they fail, they trip.

But more likely this is an issue with the fridge and if it seems random after sone time, that usually points to the defroster circuit. The defrost evaporator heater can get “leaky” when moisture gets around the coils. But it only trips the GFCI when the defrost timer turns them on. The GFCI breaker might be more sensitive than the GFCI receptacles are. I would just put in a standard breaker.

OP states with no load connected

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The “self test” feature required on all GFCI receptacles made after 2015 does NOT trip the receptacle like a plug-in tester does. So it should not be causing the GFCI breaker to trip.

GFCI breakers are also required to have a self test feature, and if they fail, they trip.
...

The product standard, UL 943, that requires the self test, does not require that the device trip when it fails a self test. It permits the device to do that, but also permits it to continue to supply power and provide an audible and/or visual indication of failure. The ones that provide indication, are not permitted to be reset after they have lost power.

 

[Little Bill]

The product standard, UL 943, that requires the self test, does not require that the device trip when it fails a self test. It permits the device to do that, but also permits it to continue to supply power and provide an audible and/or visual indication of failure. The ones that provide indication, are not permitted to be reset after they have lost power.

Will the UL police rush in if it is reset?