GFCI Breaker Malfunction

[Doc13067]

Today I was baffled by something I’ve never seen before. I ran a bunch of circuits through conduit and several of them are attached to Siemens plug on neutral GFCIs. After the install I pressed all the test buttons and they tripped. Then I went around with my meter and tripped them by going from hot to ground.

When it came to two of these GFCI protected circuits I got no reading from hot to ground. The breaker did not trip.

I do have voltage from hot to neutral and I also have voltage from another hot (one not on the GFCI breakers) to ground. So the ground is definitely good. Has anyone ever seen this? I’m wondering if the breaker is bad, but like I said it trips when you press the test button. Help! Thank you.

 

[synchro]

Are you using a low impedance meter for tripping the GFCIs?

... When it came to two of these GFCI protected circuits I got no reading from hot to ground. The breaker did not trip.

I do have voltage from hot to neutral and I also have voltage from another hot (one not on the GFCI breakers) to ground. So the ground is definitely good.

Is it possible that the hot and neutral wires are reversed? Measure the voltage from neutral to ground to verify that it's very low as it should be.
Did you try measuring the hot to ground voltage right at the output terminals of these two GFCI breakers?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

It is easy enough to test the breaker at the source.. that should be your starting point as stated by synchro

 

[ptonsparky]

Plug on neutral breakers will be rather difficult to be miswired.

 

[Doc13067]

I like the theory that the hot and neutral wires are swapped at the source. I will check that when I go back. That seems the best possible likelihood. You guys haven’t seen breakers malfunction in this way with everything wired correctly have you?

 

[Doc13067]

Plug on neutral breakers will be rather difficult to be miswired.

That’s true but anything is possible when you’re exhausted and we did the breakers at the end of a long day after going cross eyed staring at tons of wires in a little crawl space. So I wouldn’t put it past us to make a stupid mistake

 

[ptonsparky]

That breaker does not care which color wire goes where. You could use purple with pink and white polka dots for all the conductors. Hot or grounded (neutral).

 

[Fred B]

I have heard of a lot more (more than usual) AFCI and GFCI breaker failures in new products since the covid supply shortage. Not sure if it's less QC on the assembly line or substandard parts beings used as a result of shortages. Either way hopefully it doesn't result in injuries.

 

[hbiss]

When it came to two of these GFCI protected circuits I got no reading from hot to ground.

But did you check from neutral to ground?

-Hal

 

[Doc13067]

But did you check from neutral to ground?

-Hal

Haha no, this occurred at the last minute of the last day of the week. When what I expected to occur didn’t happen I packed it up until Monday and came on here to ask. I suspect if I went neutral to ground I would’ve gotten voltage for half a second and then nothing. I honestly believe I was cross eyed and put the white on the hot terminal of the breaker. But if I go back and find it is wired correctly, this will be truly perplexing.

 

[Doc13067]

Thanks for all the help my pals. I hope the white and black are miswired. But I’ll update tomorrow after I go back to the job. We are finishing tomorrow so I’ve gotta have it 100% by the end of the day.

 

[hbiss]

But if I go back and find it is wired correctly, this will be truly perplexing.

The only possibility then would be bad breakers.

-Hal

 

[David Castor]

Defective GFCI devices are fairly common.

 

[Doc13067]

Ok the hot and neutrals were indeed swapped at the breaker. What idiot did that? (This guy)

 

[ptonsparky]

Ok the hot and neutrals were indeed swapped at the breaker. What idiot did that? (This guy)

I’ve been that guy.
Thanks for owning up..

 

[Fred B]

Ok the hot and neutrals were indeed swapped at the breaker. What idiot did that? (This guy)

Yup, those PON breakers you got to watch carefully those side by side connections, over/under not so bad.

 

[Doc13067]

I’ve been that guy.
Thanks for owning up..

That’s why we double and triple check before finishing up, that’s all.

 

[Doc13067]

Yup, those PON breakers you got to watch carefully those side by side connections, over/under not so bad.

Where I get confused is if I have a whole bunch of them on one side where the hot is on top then on the other side Hot would be on the bottom but I get in the zone and just put a heart on top on both sides. That’s what caused this. I appreciate everyone’s replies though because I was ready to call Siemens! Lol