GFCI for above counter microwave in kitchen

[mshields]

In a dwelling unit kitchen that is.

I thought there was a change in 2008 requireing that such a receptacle be GFCI. I suppose one could say that the micro is serving the countertop area and that therefore it does need to be GFCI. However I don't see a change between 2005 and 2008 on this.

What's the bottom line on this, do such receptacles need to be GFCI?

Thanks,

Mike

 

[ryan_618]

Not in a dwelling they don't.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

In a dwelling unit kitchen that is.

I thought there was a change in 2008 requireing that such a receptacle be GFCI. I suppose one could say that the micro is serving the countertop area and that therefore it does need to be GFCI. However I don't see a change between 2005 and 2008 on this.
What's the bottom line on this, do such receptacles need to be GFCI?
Thanks,
Mike

If the outlets is a counter receptacle it must be GFCI protected. If it is above 20 inches of the counter then it does not.

 

[charlie b]

Please clarify "above counter." If you set the micro on the counter, then it is "above the counter." Are you talking about this, or one that sets inside a cabinet space of its own, or perhaps one located above the range?

 

[KP2]

If Micro is 20 inches above counter and not feed from the S.A.B.C. that feeds the counter plugs or any other permisable plugs and in a location dedicated to the microwave, then no it does not need to be a GFI or a Arc fault protected plug.

 

[mshields]

Clarification

Clarification

Not sitting on the counter. But the other two categories would apply. i.e. over the range or in woodwork over 20 inches above the counter.

Mike

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Not sitting on the counter. But the other two categories would apply. i.e. over the range or in woodwork over 20 inches above the counter.

Mike

You do not need a gfci on it. This statement of yours had me confused.

I suppose one could say that the micro is serving the countertop area and that therefore it does need to be GFCI.

 

[charlie b]

Why are we talking about the 20 inches as though that were the point of demarkation between "serves the countertop" and "does not serve the countertop"? That is not how the rules are written.

I can build a set of kitchen cabinets such that there is only 18 inches from the top of the counter and the bottom of the cabinet. I can put a microwave in that cabinet space, with a receptacle behind the micro (also within the cabinet space), and I can say that that receptacle does not serve the countertop, and therefore does not need GFCI.

 

[charlie b]

I suppose one could say that the micro is serving the countertop area. . . .

Not relevant. At issue is whether the receptacle is serving the countertop.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Why are we talking about the 20 inches as though that were the point of demarkation between "serves the countertop" and "does not serve the countertop"? That is not how the rules are written.

I can build a set of kitchen cabinets such that there is only 18 inches from the top of the counter and the bottom of the cabinet. I can put a microwave in that cabinet space, with a receptacle behind the micro (also within the cabinet space), and I can say that that receptacle does not serve the countertop, and therefore does not need GFCI.

Would you say that receptacles in an appliance garage do not need GFCI protection?

Edit-- I do agree if it is in a cabinet on the counter than it is not intended to serve the counter top.

 

[stickboy1375]

Would you say that receptacles in an appliance garage do not need GFCI protection?

No GFI protection required, 210.52(B)(5)

 

[Dennis Alwon]

No GFI protection required, 210.52(B)(5)

I disagree. It is intended to serve the countertop but it is not counted as the required outlets. Art 210.8 (A)(6)

 

[charlie b]

No GFI protection required, 210.52(B)(5)

I also disagree, for the reason that Dennis gave.

 

[gndrod]

In a dwelling unit kitchen that is.

I thought there was a change in 2008 requireing that such a receptacle be GFCI. I suppose one could say that the micro is serving the countertop area and that therefore it does need to be GFCI. However I don't see a change between 2005 and 2008 on this.

What's the bottom line on this, do such receptacles need to be GFCI?

Thanks,

Mike

Hi Mike,

"The bottom line on this" is that a microwave appliance sitting on a counter, will plug in to a GFCI protected receptacle. If the microwave is a cabinet built-in over the kitchen counter area...it needs to have its own 20a branch circuit receptacle connection. Rarely will you find a flex conduit flying lead connection (commercial method) to the unit that connects to a wall outlet over the counter cabinet area. (Most Micro's have a 36"-42" appliance cord.[422.16])

Also note, using 12 awg wiring for a range hood BC is a toss-up for an over-the-range Micro installation. Some GC's doing high-end kitchen installations usually demand the option. rbj

 

[stickboy1375]

I also disagree, for the reason that Dennis gave.

210.52(C)(5) Receptacle Outlet Location.

Receptacle outlets rendered not redily accessible by appliances fastened in place, appliances fastened in place, appliance garages , or appliances occupying dedicated space shall not be considered as these required outlets.


210.8 (A)(6)
Kitchens- where the receptacles are installed to serve the countertop surfaces

You may not like it, but its not required.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

210.52(C)(5) Receptacle Outlet Location.

Receptacle outlets rendered not redily accessible by appliances fastened in place, appliances fastened in place, appliance garages , or appliances occupying dedicated space shall not be considered as these required outlets.
210.8 (A)(6)
Kitchens- where the receptacles are installed to serve the countertop surfaces

Yes, It is not one of the required outlets. Where does it say it does not need GFCI protection.

Appliance garage receptacles are intended to serve the countertop.

 

[stickboy1375]

Yes, It is not one of the required outlets. Where does it say it does not need GFCI protection.

Appliance garage receptacles are intended to serve the countertop.

They are? ???? Where does it say they are?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

They are? ???? Where does it say they are?

Do you use the mixer in the garage or do you put it on the counter and leave it plugged into the garage? All the appliance garages I have seen are not designed to be used in the garage. Even if it were it is still on the counter.

 

[stickboy1375]

Dont get me wrong Dennis, I believe they are suppose to be GFI protected, but i just cant get that out of the code.

 

[stickboy1375]

The problem I have is that 210.52 (C) 1-4 is all about counters, then 5 comes along and says not to be counted as 1-4, so if its not all about counters at that point how can it be required to be GFI?