GFCI in bathrooms

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Alonzo

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I have talked to multiple people about why GFCI is required in bathrooms when they offer little or no immersion protection for people. Are we just giving people a false sense of security? ( Thanks Ryan )
 
Alonzo said:
I have talked to multiple people about why GFCI is required in bathrooms when they offer little or no immersion protection for people. Are we just giving people a false sense of security? ( Thanks Ryan )
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A GFCI is not immersion protection. Immersion protection is provided by IDCI's. The GFCI will trip if the current starts to flow through the human body. Don't try this, but if you put a hair dryer protected by a GFCI in a sink of water, it will more than likely keep running. If you stick one hand on the bonded metal water spiggot, and the other hand in the water, the GFCI will trip (provided that the sink of water is sufficiently contaminated to permit minimal current flow).
 
Alonzo said:
Most bathroom plug in items are 2 prong, therefore when immersed in water they do not trip the GFCI--per demonstration
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No kidding, because they don't have IDCI's. Some appliances do have IDCI cord caps, and some do not. A GFCI is not an IDCI. The current needs someplace else to "flow" to on a 2-prong item protected by a GFCI. Throw a ground wire in that sink of water, and I'll bet you a wooden nickel that it'll trip.
 
Alonzo said:
Most bathroom plug in items are 2 prong, therefore when immersed in water they do not trip the GFCI--per demonstration
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Where can I see this demonstration?


If the GFI doesn't trip - why would there be a hazard? It would seem there isn't enough leakage to trip it...no?
 
Thanks Marc

So the appliance manufacter installs the IDCI's--is there a potential GFCI-IDCI conbo in the future or the risk is pretty minimal for something of that nature?
 
mdshunk said:
I know Joe T had that video on YouTube for a long time, but it seems to have evaporated maybe 6 months ago. I shoulda ripped it...;)
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I was leading up to that :wink:
 
Alonzo said:
Thanks Marc

So the appliance manufacter installs the IDCI's--is there a potential GFCI-IDCI conbo in the future or the risk is pretty minimal for something of that nature?
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I don't know what hazard could exist that would be mitigated by an IDCI anyhow. If the circuit is GFCI protected, you can have a pool of electrically "hot" water all day long, and I don't see any particular hazard to life or property. Stick your hand in it, if you're grounded by some means, the GFCI will trip.
 
Alonzo said:
Thanks Marc

So the appliance manufacter installs the IDCI's--is there a potential GFCI-IDCI conbo in the future or the risk is pretty minimal for something of that nature?
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I'm baffled... what is the risk -- even if it were not minimal?

I don't give two hoots what happens if a hairdryer (or anything else for that matter) falls into a body of water. I only care if/when current starts to drain from it.
 
mdshunk said:
If the circuit is GFCI protected, you can have a pool of electrically "hot" water all day long, and I don't see any particular hazard to life or property. Stick your hand in it, if you're grounded by some means, the GFCI will trip.
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I agree with Marc entirely here.
 
mdshunk said:
I don't know what hazard could exist that would be mitigated by an IDCI anyhow.
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A potential hazard might be induced by one, however, since they might lead one to a false sense of security. For example, see this CPSC recall from 1994 where an IDCI was mislabelled as a GFCI. Yikes.
 
Ryan Jackson showed us this demonstration at a continual education class. It was pretty interesting. He put an extension cord that was plugged into a gfci & dropped it into a cup of water. Then someone actually drank out of it & nothing happened.
I understand for a gfci to trip, current has to flow somewhere other than back on the neutral like to ground. But I wonder what happens to someone in parallel with this current?
Lets just say someone fell asleep in a tub full of water & an appliance that was running fell into the tub. It would continue to run with current following all paths of flow. I would think you would be affected somehow.(maybe the water would just warm up?)
When GFI's became a requirement in bathrooms I wonder if they relied on the copper water piping to prevent this? Now that poly pipe is being used this ground is no longer there to trip the GFI if the appliance is only a two prong.

If this wasn't a problem then why have a IDCI?
 
smithacetech said:
Lets just say someone fell asleep in a tub full of water & an appliance that was running fell into the tub. It would continue to run with current following all paths of flow. I would think you would be affected somehow.
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Where's it gonna flow to in your example? I offer this answer.. nowhere, unless you come in contact with a drain trim on a metallic drainage system, or the water spiggot on a bonded metallic piping system.
 
mdshunk said:
Where's it gonna flow to in your example? I offer this answer.. nowhere, unless you come in contact with a drain trim on a metallic drainage system, or the water spiggot on a bonded metallic piping system.
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If it flowed to ground it would trip the GFI. What Im saying is you could potentially become a parallel path from the hot to neutral. (very little im sure but over time who knows?)
 
smithacetech said:
Ryan Jackson showed us this demonstration at a continual education class. It was pretty interesting. He put an extension cord that was plugged into a gfci & dropped it into a cup of water. Then someone actually drank out of it & nothing happened.
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I think Ryan learned that demonstration technique from Mike Holt. About 3 or 4 years ago, I saw Mike perform that demonstration. It blew me away. Let me add that he first unplugged his slide projector from that very extension cord. After he took a drink from the glass, he plugged the projector back in, and it worked. If by chance that circuit had been GFCI protected (which I doubt, since it was in a hotel's conference room), it certainly did not trip.
 
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