GFCI MAIN BRKR

[Toros]

Hi,
Do I need GFCI type main brkr for the 1200A, 3 ph 277/480V service/gear ?????
Thank you

 

[kwired]

You do need ground fault protection, do not confuse the protection required here with the GFCI protection required for personnel protection in 210.8 or around swimming pools and the like. There are some similarities in basics of how they function, but they are not the same thing otherwise.

 

[JFletcher]

You do need ground fault protection, do not confuse the protection required here with the GFCI protection required for personnel protection in 210.8 or around swimming pools and the like. There are some similarities in basics of how they function, but they are not the same thing otherwise.

Isnt that for delta/ungrounded delta 480V systems?

 

[iwire]

Hi,
Do I need GFCI type main brkr for the 1200A, 3 ph 277/480V service/gear ?????
Thank you

Not GFCI, GFP per 230.95

 

[kwired]

Isnt that for delta/ungrounded delta 480V systems?

Actually delta systems don't require it.

See 215.10 and 230.95, solidly grounded wye systems exceeding 150 volts to ground but no more then 600 phase to phase are what is effected. Primarily 480/277 systems for most of us, but 600/347 would be included though and effects some of us, not too many common systems besides those two fit the description.

 

[big john]

Isnt that for delta/ungrounded delta 480V systems?

Maybe you're thinking of ground fault detection systems used on ungrounded deltas? Different than ground fault protection which will operate OCPDs.

 

[JFletcher]

thank you gentlemen. and yes, I was thinking "detection" when I read "protection".

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit coffee.

 

[Ingenieur]

Good primer http://www.cooperindustries.com/con..._Ground_Fault_Protection_Requirements_GFP.pdf

 

[JFletcher]

Just curious, how much does such protection cost? ie, a 1200A 480V GFP service vs a 1000A 480V non-GFP? Or does the jump from 1000A to 1200A involve larger, more expensive gear as well? Percentage-wise increase, I dont need hard numbers.

 

[kwired]

Just curious, how much does such protection cost? ie, a 1200A 480V GFP service vs a 1000A 480V non-GFP? Or does the jump from 1000A to 1200A involve larger, more expensive gear as well? Percentage-wise increase, I dont need hard numbers.

Don't know. But would guess if you ordered same gear with GFP vs without it and of course other panels, breakers, motor contorllers, etc for the entire project and it wouldn't be that much difference.

Now order the same GFP components of that gear as a stand alone item and they likely hit you really hard in the wallet. Same goes for almost any individual item VS ordering as a project.

 

[Ingenieur]

Just curious, how much does such protection cost? ie, a 1200A 480V GFP service vs a 1000A 480V non-GFP? Or does the jump from 1000A to 1200A involve larger, more expensive gear as well? Percentage-wise increase, I dont need hard numbers.

you are asking 2 questions
upsize 1000 to 1200
add gf protection to the main

not sure about the 1000 to 1200 but more Cu = more $$$

most cb's with plug in trip units offer a gf option
eg Eaton etu 310+ units
so I'm guessing to upgrade the trip unit is not much

 

[iwire]

Just curious, how much does such protection cost? ie, a 1200A 480V GFP service vs a 1000A 480V non-GFP? Or does the jump from 1000A to 1200A involve larger, more expensive gear as well? Percentage-wise increase, I dont need hard numbers.

We escape using them when we can by using a MLO switchboard with up to six service disconnects all under 1,000 amps.

 

[electrofelon]

We escape using them when we can by using a MLO switchboard with up to six service disconnects all under 1,000 amps.

Just to clarify, for those who might read that wrong, note the GFP requirement kicks in for each "service disconnect" rated 1000 amps or more. So you could have say, a 4000 amp switchboard, 4000 amps of conductor, and 6 800 amp disconnects, and there would be no GFP required.

 

[kwired]

Just to clarify, for those who might read that wrong, note the GFP requirement kicks in for each "service disconnect" rated 1000 amps or more. So you could have say, a 4000 amp switchboard, 4000 amps of conductor, and 6 800 amp disconnects, and there would be no GFP required.

Until you have that one load that needs a 1200 amp or more fuse or breaker:happyyes:

 

[electrofelon]

Until you have that one load that needs a 1200 amp or more fuse or breaker:happyyes:

Yeah so? Then they pay me to come back and put a 1200 amp GFP breaker in no?

 

[kwired]

Yeah so? Then they pay me to come back and put a 1200 amp GFP breaker in no?

yup

 

[iwire]

Just to clarify,

Was I unclear? :huh:

 

[electrofelon]

Was I unclear? :huh:

IMO the "all" should have been "each".

 

[jumper]

Was I unclear? :huh:

No.

 

[electrofelon]

No.

We it was to me the first time I read it. "All" could be taken as the sum. I apologize if anyone is offended or bewildered by my "just in case" clarification.