GFCI Near Hydromassage Bathtub

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A person sitting in the tub would probably be okay. Someone outside of tub reaching in to remove the radio will probably receive a shock and trip the gfci.
 
What if the tub was made of ceramic, or fiberglass? Wouldn't there be a different in potential where the the person in the tub was in contact with the outer dry surface, say by their arm? I guess I am questioning why the NEC doesn't require spacing on a hydromassage versus a hot tub.
 
pierre said:
If the tub is plastic, and there are no grounded metallic paths, the GFCI will not trip.
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If your "ifs" are true, then your answer is correct. But I don't think the "ifs" are true.

I believe there will be a path for current to flow from the internals of the radio, to the bathwater (including the person in the tub), to the pipes (if any are metal) or just down the drain (even if the pipes are pvc) to some point at which underground pipes are metal, and from there along dirt to the ground rod, up to the service panel's ground bar, across the main bonding jumper to the neutral bar, and thence back to the source. My money would be on the GFCI tripping, if a GFCI were installed, or the person having a bad day, if a GFCI is not installed.
 
I attended Mike Holt's class on grounding versus bonding, spoke with him and was under the impression that he believed this was a very dangerous situation allowed by the Nec. I agree, GFCI's go bad and in my expeience continue to provide voltage without the ability to trip. I also question the same situation involving a television. Not to many copper plumbing installations in my jurisdiction any more. The plumbers use 90% PEX and the feeds are plastic. I obviosly dont have the water pipe bonded in this case, that would just create a path for transient voltage.
 
Come on, let's get this topic rolling. I think there is a lot of confusion out there on how this stuff really works.
 
LMaloney said:
Come on, let's get this topic rolling. I think there is a lot of confusion out there on how this stuff really works.
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It's a pretty simple experiment, really. All you need is a bathtub, some water, a GFCI, and a 2-prong radio. Anyone up to the research? :)

Chris Knight
Syracuse NY
 
The plumbers use 90% PEX and the feeds are plastic. I obviosly dont have the water pipe bonded in this case, that would just create a path for transient voltage.
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So if the supply to the tub were copper you would be bonding the water pipe to the pump?
 
Is there ten feet of copper underground? Other wise I wouldn't bond the pipe. I would bond the pump, not the pipe to the pump.
 
LMaloney said:
I am questioning why the NEC doesn't require spacing on a hydromassage versus a hot tub.
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What do you mean, spacing as in a minium of ten feet away? You might as well not even allow tubs then because there are only a few baths large enough to have the required basin receptacle and the 10' spacing.
 
I like Charlie B's answer. That drain line goes somewhere and there is usually enough moisture in it to provide a current path unless you have water with no impurities. (If there is any such thing without filtering and distilling.) :)
 
Here's my 2 cents. If there is no path to ground, then the GFCI will not trip, nor will the tub dweller get shocked. However, should anything change (during the period when the tub and water are energized) that creates a current path, then the GFCI should trip and open the circuit. However, I am not going to trust a GFCI to protect me when I can avoid the issue altogether. Thats why I quit taking my radio in the tub when I take my Saturday night bath!!!! :shock:
:D
 
I got a call back to a job once where the homeowner complained on the phone that the gfi in his bathroom was defective. Ok, no problem, you are under warranty, I will be right over to replace it. Found out that what he did was get curious about whether or not the gfi would trip if he plugged in a hair dryer and then dropped same into toilet. So he did just that with his wife watching him. The wife told me about it. The gfi outlet was destroyed incidentally. I made him pay me for the repair right there and then.
 
Now that's funny, I don't care who ya are! :D
I can only imagine the look on his wifes face when she saw him throw her hair dryer in the toilet and the explosion that followed!!!!
(he don't need no stinkin mythbusters!!!)
 
tshea said:
Been done on Mythbusters. Buster bought it!
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You know, I saw that episode. I was disappointed and confused with their techniques and findings. I can't remember specifics now, but at the time was overjoyed at their undertaking, and disappointed in the end.

Macmikeman, given the situation, I am not suprised that the wife sold her husband out. She probably had an attachment to her hair dryer, and was exacting revenge. :)

Very funny story!
 
I could fill up a book with all the stuff about this same guy. He put me and lots of other subs thru sheer hell while working on the rebuild/remodel of his 4000 sq foot house. Most of it was equally insane. Yes, I lost my ass on that job.
 
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