stew
Senior Member
- Location
- federal way,washington
what would cause a properly connected gfci to not trip on test? new unit and subbed another new one same candition. Any clues here?
gfci non trip
- Thread starter stew
- Start date
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bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: gfci non trip
Defective devices perhaps?
Defective devices perhaps?
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: gfci non trip
Stew, would the test button cause them to trip? It may be your tester and not the GFCIs.
Stew, would the test button cause them to trip? It may be your tester and not the GFCIs.
charlie tuna
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: gfci non trip
if it is connected right, and there is power applied, and it doesn't trip---it is defective. they say that near 40 per cent of them installed in the field "don't work"!
if it is connected right, and there is power applied, and it doesn't trip---it is defective. they say that near 40 per cent of them installed in the field "don't work"!
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
Re: gfci non trip
Don't most "plug-in" GFCI testers require a ground connection? A properly wired GFCI on a 2-wire ungrounded system could not be tested if this is the case.
Most manufacturer literature says the only listed method for testing is the integral Test Button.
Don't most "plug-in" GFCI testers require a ground connection? A properly wired GFCI on a 2-wire ungrounded system could not be tested if this is the case.
Most manufacturer literature says the only listed method for testing is the integral Test Button.
luckyshadow
Senior Member
- Location
- Maryland
Re: gfci non trip
the good old fashioned wiggy from hot to any ground should trip it every time.I had to trouble shoot a gfi once would trip with the test button ,but not with the gfi tester. Result was XO in the transformer was not bonded.
the good old fashioned wiggy from hot to any ground should trip it every time.I had to trouble shoot a gfi once would trip with the test button ,but not with the gfi tester. Result was XO in the transformer was not bonded.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Re: gfci non trip
This reminds me of a GFCI tester that I used a few years ago. While holding open the metal weatherproof cover I pressed the test button only to be blasted with 120 volts. Seems that I was kneeling on some damp dirt and the receptacle had no ground. The DIY'er who owned the home decided that the bare ground wire wasn't needed so he simply cut it off at the romex connector.
This reminds me of a GFCI tester that I used a few years ago. While holding open the metal weatherproof cover I pressed the test button only to be blasted with 120 volts. Seems that I was kneeling on some damp dirt and the receptacle had no ground. The DIY'er who owned the home decided that the bare ground wire wasn't needed so he simply cut it off at the romex connector.
Re: gfci non trip
A ground is not required for a GFI to work properly. Look up the code where you can replace non-grounded outlets with a GFI.
If the outlet is wired properly and does not trip with a "push button" tester, then it is defective.
Leviton just had a bunch that where defective.
Check with your supplier. But again, a grounded conductor is not required for the GFI to work properly.
A ground is not required for a GFI to work properly. Look up the code where you can replace non-grounded outlets with a GFI.
If the outlet is wired properly and does not trip with a "push button" tester, then it is defective.
Leviton just had a bunch that where defective.
Check with your supplier. But again, a grounded conductor is not required for the GFI to work properly.
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Re: gfci non trip
The test button on the GFCI creates a ground fault internally hot to neutral and trips the GFCI. The GFCI external tester tests hot to equipment ground, if it does not trip then the equipment ground is missing or incomplete.
The mfgs recommended method is to use the GFCI test button
The test button on the GFCI creates a ground fault internally hot to neutral and trips the GFCI. The GFCI external tester tests hot to equipment ground, if it does not trip then the equipment ground is missing or incomplete.
The mfgs recommended method is to use the GFCI test button
stew
Senior Member
- Location
- federal way,washington
Re: gfci non trip
for tom baker . why would the equipment ground have anything to do with the trip when the trip is done by shorting the hot and neutral? I did not use a tester on these only the test button on the gfi. These are leviton devices and one of them tripped once and then would not repeat. The second would not trip at all. Havent ried a third one yet but this is the first tiem thie has ever happened to me in the field.2 out of 2 bad? please expand on why you feel the egc has anything at all to do with the trip test as an egec is not required for a gfci to operate.
for tom baker . why would the equipment ground have anything to do with the trip when the trip is done by shorting the hot and neutral? I did not use a tester on these only the test button on the gfi. These are leviton devices and one of them tripped once and then would not repeat. The second would not trip at all. Havent ried a third one yet but this is the first tiem thie has ever happened to me in the field.2 out of 2 bad? please expand on why you feel the egc has anything at all to do with the trip test as an egec is not required for a gfci to operate.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: gfci non trip
Stew If the GFCI didn't trip by the trip button on the unit or can not be reset after triping the unit it either has the feed conductors connected to the load terminals which can only happen on older GFCI's (Non-fail safe) or on newer ones which has had the reset button reset then the feed wires switched to the load side. Or flat out you got a bad lot of GFCI's.
If you look at the two diagrams of a GFCI circuit below, you can see how the test button places a 5ma load from the load side hot to the line side neutral which will act just like a ground fault. If these GFCI's are used to replace receptacles on a non-gounded circuit they will still funtion but a plug in tester will not be able to test them as they require a grounding source to "leak" the current to, to cause the imbalance to trip it.
This diagram shows the fault current which trips the GFCI.
Stew If the GFCI didn't trip by the trip button on the unit or can not be reset after triping the unit it either has the feed conductors connected to the load terminals which can only happen on older GFCI's (Non-fail safe) or on newer ones which has had the reset button reset then the feed wires switched to the load side. Or flat out you got a bad lot of GFCI's.
If you look at the two diagrams of a GFCI circuit below, you can see how the test button places a 5ma load from the load side hot to the line side neutral which will act just like a ground fault. If these GFCI's are used to replace receptacles on a non-gounded circuit they will still funtion but a plug in tester will not be able to test them as they require a grounding source to "leak" the current to, to cause the imbalance to trip it.
This diagram shows the fault current which trips the GFCI.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: gfci non trip
Bigjohn67,
Don
Bigjohn67,
Really?? I think that you meant to say "grounding conductor". If so you are correct that the GFCI will function correctly without an EGC, but in that case you can't use a plug-in tester to test it. See the diagram posted by Wayne.
Don
john m. caloggero
Senior Member
Re: gfci non trip
You may have an old GFCI. A word of caution back in the mid 1980's, my associate and I got a call about a GFCI receptacle not tripping. We tried some different wiring screw-ups. We connected the supply conductors to the load-side of the GFCI, guess what, it didn't trip. UL then changed the internal wiring so that the GFCI would not energize if the it was wire incorrectly.
You may have an old GFCI. A word of caution back in the mid 1980's, my associate and I got a call about a GFCI receptacle not tripping. We tried some different wiring screw-ups. We connected the supply conductors to the load-side of the GFCI, guess what, it didn't trip. UL then changed the internal wiring so that the GFCI would not energize if the it was wire incorrectly.
growler
Senior Member
- Location
- Atlanta,GA
Re: gfci non trip
Do any of you use the Ideal "Sure Test". I bought mine to try and explain voltage drops to home inspectors. It seems to work well for finding sneaky little problems. Poor connections, neutral to ground( arc fault breaker problems), bootleg grounds. I find I can check a house quickly with it and if I find a problem I get the meter out.Just thought I would mention it. Looks like a toy but works great. Buy the way I got a bunch of those bad Leviton GFCI's and some bad Leviton switches. I have pretty much switched brands now.
I think they should have some sort of quality controll. It's embarrassing in the field to install products that don't work.
Do any of you use the Ideal "Sure Test". I bought mine to try and explain voltage drops to home inspectors. It seems to work well for finding sneaky little problems. Poor connections, neutral to ground( arc fault breaker problems), bootleg grounds. I find I can check a house quickly with it and if I find a problem I get the meter out.Just thought I would mention it. Looks like a toy but works great. Buy the way I got a bunch of those bad Leviton GFCI's and some bad Leviton switches. I have pretty much switched brands now.
I think they should have some sort of quality controll. It's embarrassing in the field to install products that don't work.
john m. caloggero
Senior Member
Re: gfci non trip
Growler: Best thing is to notify UL about the faulty devices, they will follow up on it.
John C
Growler: Best thing is to notify UL about the faulty devices, they will follow up on it.
John C
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