GFCI on Ovens

[smitters24]

Good day all, maybe yall can shed some light on a issue that we have. GFCI trips when the oven is turned on. Happening on every unit of a 64 unit apartment complex. We have gone back to the manufacturer of the oven and they say it is there problem. They say they did not have to be compliant until july of this year with the code changes. My question, has anybody else had this problem if so what was the solution. Is there a solution other than get different ovens?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Good day all, maybe yall can shed some light on a issue that we have. GFCI trips when the oven is turned on. Happening on every unit of a 64 unit apartment complex. We have gone back to the manufacturer of the oven and they say it is there problem. They say they did not have to be compliant until july of this year with the code changes. My question, has anybody else had this problem if so what was the solution. Is there a solution other than get different ovens?

I would talk with the authority having jurisdiction and see if they would allow you to remove the gfci.

 

[ptonsparky]

Some of the guys here have had success with operating the ovens on a standard breaker, until any moisture that happens to be in the elements, has evaporated.

Real PIA for 64 units.

Dennis has the better option.
Now what to do with 64 extra 50 amp GFCI breakers.

 

[roger]

This is where 90.4 has an actual purpose

 

[smitters24]

Thanks so far for the input. And yes we have gone round and round with AHJ to no avail. The owner will have to get new ovens for the remaining units and hope that they are to code. Doesnt help either when the manufacturer will not give a straight answer.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Thanks so far for the input. And yes we have gone round and round with AHJ to no avail. The owner will have to get new ovens for the remaining units and hope that they are to code. Doesnt help either when the manufacturer will not give a straight answer.

With resistance heating elements, it can be that the insulation in the CalRod elements is not completely dry, and needs to be dried out before they will work on a GFCI protected circuit. I doubt that new ones would be any different. This really should happen at the manufacturer's plant, but apparently it doesn't.

 

[roger]

So if the project was permitted under the current code requirement, whoever purchased the ovens and the manufacturer are at fault. Sounds like there will be legal issues coming up.

 

[infinity]

They say they did not have to be compliant until july of this year with the code changes.

What does this mean? Are they saying that the circuit doesn't require GFCI protection under the current adopted code in the jurisdiction?

 

[augie47]

I'm sure they checked to make sure the neutral bond strap in the ranges are correctly configured

 

[smitters24]

What does this mean? Are they saying that the circuit doesn't require GFCI protection under the current adopted code in the jurisdiction?

Supposedly the manufacturers had a different date that they had to start making there ovens compatible with the "new" code of them being on a GCFI breaker.

 

[smitters24]

I'm sure they checked to make sure the neutral bond strap in the ranges are correctly configured

Yes, in fact the manufacturer sent a tech out to fix the problem. It worked for about a week. The "fix" was disconnecting wires, running it up to 350 and reconnecting.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

It does not appear that UL 1026, Household Electric Cooking and Food Serving Appliances has any leakage current requirements for non-portable appliances supplied by a branch circuit rated over 20 amps. That is based on the revision published 9/29/2023 and is the most recent standard.

EDIT to add:

There is also a standard for ranges, UL 858, Household Electric Ranges that limits the leakage current to 3.5mA for those products. The revision date for that standard was 8/2/2023.

Not sure how it is determined what standard a product is listed too.

​

 

[LarryFine]

The "fix" was disconnecting wires, running it up to 350 . . .

How?

 

[ptonsparky]

How?

No EG?

 

[gene6]

I'm sure they checked to make sure the neutral bond strap in the ranges are correctly configured

We recently got a call from a appliance installer working for the GC finishing out a laundry room asking for 3-wire dryer receptacles, they wanted the old NEMA style, It took a little back and forth to get them to put the 4-wire cords on.
I had to go by the job replace a occupancy sensor and checked one of the dryers, they had a 4-wire cord but upon unplugging and testing with my fluke there was continuity ground pin to neutral.
So yeah I'd check it again, my self with my own meter.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

How?

Eliminate the ground fault return path and run the temperature up to drive out the moisture.
If the appliance does not have any other ground fault path other than the EGC, you could disconnect that in the appliance or at the receptacle.

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

Unfortunately this is what the NFPA does, they sit every 3 years and conjure up more regulations, as if this country needed more rules.

This is a major issue all over the place, where the Code requires one thing, and real world its an impossibility. It was huge when AFCI first came out.

I'm running into this with clothes dyers, washing machines, its an issue with some EV chargers....

I've heard of GFCI breakers being swapped for standard breakers after final inspection. I have no idea if that is true or not.

But I'm in Outlaw Country, so there's that.........

But apparently all the millions of ranges and clothes dryers that have been installed for the last 80 years without GFCI protection, up until this year, are not killing vast segments of the population, so......

 

[LarryFine]

No EG?

Eliminate the ground fault return path . . .

Aha.

 

[kwired]

Some of the guys here have had success with operating the ovens on a standard breaker, until any moisture that happens to be in the elements, has evaporated.

Real PIA for 64 units.

Dennis has the better option.
Now what to do with 64 extra 50 amp GFCI breakers.

Install them temporarily in the next project and remove again when they don't hold there either

 

[kwired]

So if the project was permitted under the current code requirement, whoever purchased the ovens and the manufacturer are at fault. Sounds like there will be legal issues coming up.

If it complied with listing standards, particularly with any leakage requirements, at time of manufacture it should not be manufacturer's problem.

Kind of like saying your old 1970's automobile doesn't meet current emissions or safety standards and you can't use it if you don't bring it up to current standards.