GFCI or Single Recp?

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davedottcom

davedottcom

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Customer wants rope lights under Every cabinet in kitchen & baths. :(

In the Bathrooms, it looks like I'll have to use GFCIs (on the 15 amp lighting circuit) for all of the bath rope lt. recps. since the exceptions in 210.8 don't allow for single recps.

But in the Kitchen, 210.8(A)(6) seems to allow a single recps. or a duplex for that matter, since they will not be installed to serve the countertop surfaces.

Any comments?

Dave
 
Re: GFCI or Single Recp?

are you saying you are going to leave a cord dangling at the toe kick. isnt there a way to hard wire the lights to a wall switch?
 
Re: GFCI or Single Recp?

I'm thinking his customer is wanting him to add the rope lights in the toe-kick area, just under the cabinet doors. I've seen this done a few times in kitchen showrooms. It makes the cabinets look like they're floating. Pretty cool.

I'm also pretty sure that the field-cuttable rope lights are no longer UL approved. They are only available in factory made up lenghts with attachment cords (I think!).
 
Re: GFCI or Single Recp?

As for the cord on the rope light, it can be cut and made as short as necessary so it's not dangling.
But no rope light can be hardwired as far as I know.
They come in many pre made lengths. 24", 36", 60". etc...
I already suggested florescent lts, but they want the rope lights. :roll:
 
Re: GFCI or Single Recp?

FWIW, I recently replaced under counter halogen lights with rope lights. I also installed toe kick rope lights at the same time. We tried flourescent and didn't like the results.
My initial thought was to wire the rope lights directly to a switch but that does not meet code. On the advice of my inspector, I installed 15A duplex receptacles in the back of cabinets and routed the rope light plugs through the bottom of the cabinets. The outlets are controlled from switches at the countertop.
 
Re: GFCI or Single Recp?

First, the rope light is not listed to be spliced to anything. They have a factory end that makes the connection to the cord.

Second, I don't think any rope lights are listed to run "through" any kind of wall or cabinet. They must remain on the surface, and the same goes for their cords.
 
Re: GFCI or Single Recp?

WMitch, do you mean the outlets were cut into the bottom of the cabinets? (Facing down)
That would be a violation in a kitchen, but not in a bathroom!
I don't think my customer would want to open the vanity door and have the old work box taking up his shelf space...but I guess it could be done in a bath vanity.

I'm gonna stick to the kickspace! :)
 
Re: GFCI or Single Recp?

Dave
You are correct that cords are not to pass through the cabinets. Also that the manufacturer will provide information if they can be hardwired.

The receptacle on the countertop will require GFCI protection, as the lights can easily be unplugged and an appliance could be plugged into that same countertop receptacle. The receptacle will also be required to be supplied by a 20 amp circuit.
 
Re: GFCI or Single Recp?

_________________________________________________
You are correct that cords are not to pass through the cabinets. Also that the manufacturer will provide information if they can be hardwired
_________________________________________________

Cabinets are not walls so why can't cords pass through cabinets?
 
Re: GFCI or Single Recp?

Seems they are.

UL 2388

1 Scope

1.1 This standard covers portable flexible lighting products with a maximum input voltage rating of 120 volts to be used in accordance with the National Electrical Code, ANSI/NFPA 70. These products are provided with a power supply cord and are intended for outline and decorative lighting use.
1.1 revised effective November 1, 2003

1.2 These requirements cover lighting products incorporating non-replaceable series and series/parallel connected lamps enclosed within a flexible polymeric tube or extrusion.
1.2 revised effective November 1, 2003

1.3 These requirements also cover flexible lighting products used in light sculptures.
1.3 revised effective November 1, 2003

1.4 These requirements do not cover lighting products with replaceable lamps.
1.4 revised effective November 1, 2003

1.5 These requirements do not cover the temporary-use, seasonal decorative-lighting products and accessories with a maximum input voltage rating of 120 V that are covered by the Standard for Seasonal and Holiday Decorative Products, UL 588.
1.5 revised June 28, 2004

easonal and Holiday Decorative Products
UL 588

1 Scope

1.1 These requirements cover temporary-use, seasonal decorative-lighting products and accessories with a maximum input voltage rating of 120 V to be used in accordance with the National Electrical Code, ANSI/NFPA 70. Temporary-use is considered to be a period of installation and use not exceeding 90 days.

1.2 These requirements cover factory-assembled seasonal lighting strings with push-in, midget-screw, or miniature-screw lampholders connected in series for across-the-line use or with candelabra- or intermediate-screw lampholders connected in parallel for direct-connection use. These requirements also cover factory-assembled seasonal decorative outfits such as wreaths, stars, light sculptures, crosses, candles or candle sets without lamp shades, products in the shape of, or in resemblance to, a Christmas tree provided with simulated branches and needles not exceeding 30 inches in height, blow-molded figures or objects, animated figures, tree tops, controllers, tree stands, and motorized decorative displays. These requirements cover products which are portable and not permanently connected to a power source.

1.3 These requirements additionally cover ornaments which are provided with an adapter for connection to a push-in lampholder and are intended to replace a push-in lamp in a series-connected decorative-lighting string or decorative outfit.

1.4 These requirements do not cover strings employing lampholders larger than intermediate-screw, non-seasonal lighting, non-seasonal products, permanently connected products, non-decorative lighting intended for illumination only, cord sets, or temporary power taps. These requirements also do not cover nightlights which are covered under the Standard for Nightlights, UL 1786, or flexible lighting products that are not part of a decorative outfit which are covered under the Standard for Flexible Lighting Products, UL 2388.
1.4 revised effective January 3, 2006

1.5 Deleted November 21, 2001

1.6 These requirements do not cover portable electric lamps intended for general illumination with a seasonal decoration and a typical lamp shade construction open at the top and bottom, which are covered under the Standard for Portable Electric Lamps, UL 153.
1.6 added effective January 3, 2006
 
Re: GFCI or Single Recp?

The next thing that would be required is an in use cover,since the shower or tub or sink can overfill leaving the receptacles to direct driving water :D ;)
 
Re: GFCI or Single Recp?

I believe the rope lights requires GFCI protection in all cases. The newer lights I have seen require this in the mfg's instructions. I don't deal with them alot and this may not apply to all brands. The reason for it was they were being blamed for setting fires. I do not know the specifics though.
 
Re: GFCI or Single Recp?

Pierre, ALL of the rope light recps will be about 2" off the floor!
(In the recessed toe-kick space Below the bottom Cab.)

He does want them under the Top Kitch Cabs. also but I'm going to try to talk him out of them!
No nice way to do it! There are much better ways to go that don't need recps!!!

Allenwayne, I never said wiremold box! :p I'll use old work boxes and flush mount them all the way to one side of the vanity.
 
Re: GFCI or Single Recp?

Easy answer to the actual question.
Bath receptacles GFCI fed from 20 amp circuit that feeds that bath only.
Kitchen receptacles 20 amp Not gfci.

I see no reason to not put the receptacles inside the cabinets.

[ November 28, 2005, 07:58 AM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]
 
Re: GFCI or Single Recp?

Sorry - my "bottom of the cabinet" is misleading. The non-gfi outlets are installed in boxes mounted to wall studs. The outlets are located in the lower part of the cabinets.
In order to hardwire directly to the switch I would have had to run the light cord through a wall - according to the inspector that is prohibited.
I have had rope lights on my deck for years without even a burnt bulb. Heat generated from the rope light is much less concentrated than the heat from halogens.
 
Re: GFCI or Single Recp?

i was thinking a box in the toe kick, a plastic 90 deg connector with rubber bushing in the cover. romex up to a wall siwtch, home run put on a gfci breaker. since this is now a lighting circuit the kitchen and bath rope light could all be on one breaker, amperage permitting.
 
Re: GFCI or Single Recp?

NECBuff - Do you have any data supporting your statement about rope lights causing fires? If they are a fire hazard I don't want them in my house.
I tried a search to find info on them and the best I could find was a fire chief praising them when used as Christmas decorations.
My high intensity rope lights are spec'd at 7 watts/ft and I'm using two 20'runs. They are on a single dedicated 15A ckt. Why would a 20A ckt be required? Where in the NEC does it say that a GFI is required for cabinet accent lighting?
 
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