GFCI Protection for Receptacles in Cabinet Under Sink?

Status
Not open for further replies.
CuriousHomeInspector said:
No worries. I spoke today with an individual from the electrical examiners board in Arkansas and they also clarified that as of now it is required, but will most likely change later this year with the 2017 code cycle change. For now you can take a string from the edge of a sink and run it 6 ft and touch a receptacle, GFCI protection is required (in Arkansas anyway).
Click to expand...

Change to what?

JAP>
 
rcarroll said:
The 2017 code defines how to measure the 6' to a receptacle. As it is written, an outlet under the sink won't have to be GFI protected if there is a door to the cabinet.
Click to expand...

And why is that?

If someone opens the cabinet door to see if there's a receptacle there they can use, is there some invisible force that will deflect the 6' cord on whatever it is that they want to use from reaching the sink simply because they're running the cord through an opening?

The confusion on this rule has been beat to death, not because of the intent of the rule, but because of the problem of trying to explain the measurement.

JAP>
 
jap said:
And why is that?

If someone opens the cabinet door to see if there's a receptacle there they can use, is there some invisible force that will deflect the 6' cord on whatever it is that they want to use from reaching the sink simply because they're running the cord through an opening?

The confusion on this rule has been beat to death, not because of the intent of the rule, but because of the problem of trying to explain the measurement.

JAP>
Click to expand...
As I said, the 2017 defines how to measure the 6'. IMO it makes it easy.
 
rcarroll said:
As I said, the 2017 defines how to measure the 6'. IMO it makes it easy.
Click to expand...

Yup, pretty decent for code language. :)

2017 NEC
210.8
For the purposes of this section, when determining distance
from receptacles the distance shall be measured as the shortest
path the cord of an appliance connected to the receptacle
would follow without piercing a floor, wall, ceiling, or fixed
barrier, or passing through a door, doorway, or window
Click to expand...
 
infinity said:
Yup, pretty decent for code language. :)
Click to expand...

Seems cumbersome to have to have an appliance with the cord plugged into the receptacle to make the measurement.

The string idea was a step up from this.

Just seems odd for such a talented group to have so many different opinions of how to measure 6 feet just to not have to put in a 10 dollar GFI receptacle.

JAP>
 
jap said:
Seems cumbersome to have to have an appliance with the cord plugged into the receptacle to make the measurement.

The string idea was a step up from this.

Just seems odd for such a talented group to have so many different opinions of how to measure 6 feet just to not have to put in a 10 dollar GFI receptacle.

JAP>
Click to expand...

I think here it's more proper interpretation of the Code than the effort needed to meet it. One GFCI receptacle and 15 minutes labor, not a big deal, but the OP mentioned here or the other thread that this was a ~100 unit apartment complex:

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=183153

"This is an issue is because there are 100 units on this site"

Now we have not one $10 GFCI receptacle (I'd like to get a GFCI for $10..) and 15 minutes to change it out, but $1000 worth of them and 25 hours labor.
 
OP. Which code are you going to use to determine the GFCI requirement for safety?

The one the house was built under? (No GFCI.)
Your current Code? (GFCI required)
Future Code? (No GFCI) (Wait, now 240v recepts are added.)
Your opinion at this moment?

All within a span of 9 years or less, we go from you'll live, to death is imminent, to you'll live again.
 
jap said:
Seems cumbersome to have to have an appliance with the cord plugged into the receptacle to make the measurement.

The string idea was a step up from this.

Just seems odd for such a talented group to have so many different opinions of how to measure 6 feet just to not have to put in a 10 dollar GFI receptacle.

JAP>
Click to expand...

With readily accessible & AFCI being required per NEC 2014 & 2017 it is more like a $60 OCPD installing protection for recepts in cabinets & behind a fixed barrier -- though both locations are not usual power outlets to plug in a hair dryer - drill - charger - or laptop. The AFCI protection appears to be for the appliance it serves IMO

Very few areas in a dwelling do not required either GFCI or AFCI protection and quite a few now require both so there is not a lacking of protection for the wiring system presently
 
Just saying.

If it's required, put it in, if not, leave it out.

With so much confusion and talk about how to measure 6 feet, and where to measure from, or what's between the outlet and the sink, maybe there had ought to be something else that determines when the GFI is needed rather than the distance.

To me, rather than specifying a distance, there should be something that specifies a location, or there will always be confusion on how the measurement is taken. As is evident by all the back and forth.

JAP>
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top