mbrooke
Batteries Included
- Location
- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
Well it seems NRTLs are trying to make the CPSC commission look right...
GFCI protection now mandatory for all dishwashers?
- Thread starter mbrooke
- Start date
- Status
Well it seems NRTLs are trying to make the CPSC commission look right...
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
I think NRTL's and CSPC both failed. Appliance and GFCI mfgr's are the winners here, and NEC stepped in and tried to fixed something that NRTL's and CSPC should have found a way of fixing.
Sure the electrician's sort of win also, but as usual they are just the middle man and not the true winner.
Conflict with code & code commentary - 210.8 - Ground-Fault Circuit Protection
Conflict with code & code commentary - 210.8 - Ground-Fault Circuit Protection
Upon review of the 2014 NEC Handbook, 210.8(A)(6) Kitchens. The commentary under this section states, "Receptacles installed for disposals, dishwashers, and trash compactors are not required to be protected by GFCIs". However, 210.8(D) Kitchen Dishwasher Branch Circuit - "GFCI protection shall be provided for outlets that supply dishwasher installed in dwelling unit locations".
So are dishwashers to be protected by GFCI or not? And if dishwashers, why not the disposals and any other cord plugged receptacles below the sink??
:?:?
Conflict with code & code commentary - 210.8 - Ground-Fault Circuit Protection
Upon review of the 2014 NEC Handbook, 210.8(A)(6) Kitchens. The commentary under this section states, "Receptacles installed for disposals, dishwashers, and trash compactors are not required to be protected by GFCIs". However, 210.8(D) Kitchen Dishwasher Branch Circuit - "GFCI protection shall be provided for outlets that supply dishwasher installed in dwelling unit locations".
So are dishwashers to be protected by GFCI or not? And if dishwashers, why not the disposals and any other cord plugged receptacles below the sink??
:?:?
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
The reason this got put into 2014 NEC is not because of shock hazards (which is what nearly all the rest of 210.8 is trying to address:roll
It was put there because of a high number of failure rates of some component in the appliance that often results in starting a fire. Apparently there is enough of a ground fault when this failure occurs that a GFCI will trip and prevent further damage.
Many feel this should have been addressed by product recalls and change of design of the failing component, instead the manufacturers sort of got a "get out of jail free" card by having this code change.
ADD: When I replied to this last post I thought it was a new thread, I now see it is an older thread - I may have mentioned things already addressed - but still feel I addressed the question in the last post.
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
One important reality to remember is that the "commentary" of the Handbook is NOT enforceable NEC. The commentary is simply, and only, the opinion of the people that assemble the Handbook for publication.
Only the language in the National Electrical Code gets adopted, by reference, into legally enforceable law by each Jurisdiction adopting the NEC.
No jurisdiction adopts the NEC Handbook into local statute. So the commentary is not statute.
In this thread, 210.8(D) of the 2014 NEC is enforceable, and is the rule. Also note that 210.8(D) is written for "outlets" not just receptacles. . . so even a hardwired dishwasher must have GFCI protection.
whofrankw
Member
- Location
- milford nj
that was my next question. if a hardwired dishwasher was considered an outlet and needed gfci. guess most inspectors havent noticed the hardwired dishwashers ive done with just a breaker lock. but recently ive switched to gfi outlet below the sink with a cord to dishwasher
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
The wording is not as simple and precise as it could be.
But the outlet GFCI provision applies only to dwelling units because they will have the dishwasher models that prompted the change.
The more general rule which applies to ANY kitchens does not require GFCI.
But the order in which the code lists the two is certainly subject to questioning.
But the outlet GFCI provision applies only to dwelling units because they will have the dishwasher models that prompted the change.
The more general rule which applies to ANY kitchens does not require GFCI.
But the order in which the code lists the two is certainly subject to questioning.
- Status