GFCI Question

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Angrysquirrel

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Michigan
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Military
Hello;

I’m attempting to gather some information to appear an issue I’m having with a home appraiser whom currently is making me unable to obtain a VA mortgage refinance.

Background; new build in Michigan with all inspections passed and COO issued by county. Michigan seems to currently be on NEC 2017 code.

Issue; the appraiser claims my home is not up to code with 2020 NEC standards due to all receptacle in hazardous areas (kitchen, bathrooms and laundry) not having GFICs independently wired at each reciprocal location. I quieried the builder who informed me all plugs are in fact equipped with GFIC protection but not ever plug is a GFIC plug. That is to say, all plugs in hazardous areas are connected to a GFIC. Here is what the builder wrote;

“Install GFI's in kitchen independently of each other above the kitchen counter. 2020 NEC(National Electric Code Book Page 218 Section A - 6.”

I’m giving myself a crash course in electrical safety and standards. My question is this; does the 2020 code indeed require GFICs in the kitchen be independent of each other?
I have a feeling this appraiser is overreaching and abusing his position. It’s a bad spot to be in because the appraiser for a VA loan is almost the end all be all unless you want to go through a lengthy government review.
Any info is appreciated!!
 
A gfci receptacle has the ability to connect loads that are wired affter the first device and keep them all gfci protected.

In the kitchen tripped one of the gfci breakers or receptacles on the counter and see if some of the others go off. GFCI is not required at every outlet unless Michigan has an amendment. If it passed inspection I doubt there is an amendment
 
Thank you for the reply. I now have to somehow educate a hard headed VA appraiser that this is the case and that his interpretation of an electrical code that is not in use in Michigan is incorrect.
 
Agreed. A GFCI receptacle is capable of providing protection to other receptacle locations, and there is no NEC requirement for individual protection.

There may be a local amendment, insurer, or mortgage requirement for individual protection. (I have never heard of such, but it is a wide world) The inspector should be obliged to provide the code or contract reference for the violation.

Jon
 
Angrysquirrel said:
2020 NEC(National Electric Code Book Page 218 Section A - 6.”
Click to expand...


there is no article '218' in the 20 NEC, nor (to my knowledge) has there ever been an article 218

I'd challenge him on this alone

and here's where the 'threat is more powerful than the execution' tactic comes in

i download sm claims forms (any court has them) , and send them to deadbeats. keep in mind i seldom register them w/local courts , i save that for down the road

same holds true for a subpoena , one can send this via local sheriff to anyone for almost anything, it is ONLY a legal notification

this is how many many disputes are settled pre-court appearance (mediators r-us)

hold malfeasance's feet to the fire, and you do us all a favor squirrel

~RJ~
 
I like your style, RJ. I’ve been preparing for this, it’s exactly my style as well. I’m ready to go as far as visiting my local Congress person to discuss how this individual and the VA allow discrimination against military members. This guy obviously has it out for military folks, why else would he prevent me from taking part in one of the few benefits the military provides?

here’s another tidbit that will really send this over the top. Another contingency the appraiser has added was that the corners of the posts on the front porch are mitered. They’re currently butted up against each other at a 90 degree angle; he won’t sign off on his contingent appraisal until this is completed. He said it affects value and makes him question the quality of the build. So I’m fighting two absurd contingent pieces on this.

I’m kind of beside myself right now. Unfortunately the VA gives appraisers carte Blanche.
 
This is the only thing that makes sense as it relates to GFCI requirements. Interesting point, he can’t even correctly cite the codes he’s incorrectly enforcing.
 
Here are the contingencies he put on the appraisal;


  1. Install GFI's in kitchen independently of each other above the kitchen counter. 2020 NEC(National Electric Code Book Page 218 Section A - 6.
  2. Install GFI's in all bathrooms.
  3. Install GFI in laundry room.
  4. Install Gutters on house.
  5. Remitter trim joints on front columns from square cut to 45% cuts on the ends than caulk, prime and paint. Paint columns on front porch - bare wood.
 
He is correct about the kit. laundry and baths needing gfci but he is incorrect that a gfci receptacle is needed at each outlet. Did you check to see if you trip the gfci in kit that all the counter receptacles are without power? if so then it is compliant. If not then something is wired incorrectly
 
Yes; all areas with water are wired via a GFCI. So, the laundry room is wired via the bathroom. The kitchen has a GFIC device which the non GFIC device plugs are wired through. They all trip as appropriate and was inspected by county and subsequently signed off. This man said the builder probably paid the inspector off.
 
Why is the inspecting requiring compliance with the 2020NEC when the house was built using the 2017?

Does the VA always require residences to be brought up to the current code?
 
I spoke to the VA; they say their standard is state and/or county that the home is in, in my case, Michigan and the 2017 NEC. This appraiser has arbitrarily chosen 2020 NEC to enforce, even though he has no authority to enforce anything and what he does try to enforce, he does so incorrectly.
I spoke directly to the inspector that signed the house off and he cited all the codes that have to do with gfi protection (the same stuff you guys said). I spoke to the VA and they said the only choice I have is to request a waiver directly from the VA for these items.
Don’t know how I drew the short straw with this guy, but I did.
 
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I would demand that the home inspector retract what he said and threaten to take him to court for his incompetence and causing you grief
 
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