GFCI question

[Randy1961]

We recently received a red tag for these items in a single family dwelling and I cannot find in the NEC where he is getting this from. Can anyone point to the NEC article that states?...

1. All GFCI protected outlets must have a GFCI label attached to the outlet.
I understand this to be true when using GFCI outlets, all other outlets downstream must be labeled as such. However in this case, the GFCI protection is provided by a dual function GFCI/AFCI breaker. When that is the case, my understanding is you do not need labels on the outlets.

2. All bathrooms and the outlet used for servicing the AC condenser (within 25') must be resettable GFCI outlets.
Again, these outlets are protected by duel function GFCI/AFCI breakers. I understand for convenience sake this is true but where in the NEC is this stated?

We use duel function breakers on every circuit in the panel for years and have never had an inspector call us out on these things.

 

[infinity]

Dual function breakers are permitted to provide the GFCI protection.
1) Not required by the NEC although some believe incorrectly that since a label comes with the GFCI device you're required to use them.
2) Nothing in the 2020 or earlier versions of the NEC requires this.

 

[Randy1961]

Thank you, Rob

 

[infinity]

Thank you, Rob

They should have provided you with a code reference. 210.63(A) makes no mention of the GFCI protection reset being at the device so unless this is a local code the NEC allows protection at the circuit breaker.

210.63(A) Heating, Air-Conditioning, and Refrigeration Equipment.
The required receptacle outlet shall be located on the same level as the heating, air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle outlet shall not be connected to the load side of the equipment’s branch-circuit disconnecting means.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

All bathrooms and the outlet used for servicing the AC condenser (within 25') must be resettable GFCI outlets.

Do they have an adopted amendment for this. It would be a reasonable requirement, but it is not found in the NEC.

 

[Randy1961]

Thank you guys for the responses.
Yes, I agree and I have asked him in writing for a code reference from the NEC. No response yet.
And yes, I understand it's not an unreasonable request, but just I'd rather the inspector state something on the inspection report that says "I know this is not in the code book, but from now on, we will require..." . Reason being is we have used this method for years in this very same city and never had any issues. It just feels like they are moving the goalpost on us without any written or verbal information. I have contacted the city and they report no new amendments...Also, this is a third party inspection company hired by the city, not a city employee. I don't see how that matters though.

 

[infinity]

"I know this is not in the code book, but from now on, we will require...

Unless it's a written amendment I wouldn't accept that either. If an inspector has a good idea there is a defined process to have it entered into the language of the code. Sans that I wouldn't be doing it.

 

[Little Bill]

but just I'd rather the inspector state something on the inspection report that says "I know this is not in the code book, but from now on, we will require..."

They can't require it unless they have a written amendment. I used to get a lot of "I want it done this way" type of statements from some inspectors. I just ignored them unless it was code or amendment.

ETA: Took me too long to type as Rob beat me to it!

 

[Randy1961]

I agree with you both.

 

[Ponchik]

If I get dinged for an installation, I always ask for a code section on the job site, If the inspector doesn't have the code book, I will be glad to bring mine in from the truck.

Always ask for a valid verifiable code section. I have had inspectors give me random code sections.

 

[brycenesbitt]

Those paper labels that come with GFCIs last until.... the first good cleaning.
Useless. I could see a requirement to put a plastic tab into the receptacle that locks from the back....

 

[ramsy]

Can anyone point to the NEC article

Replacement code for ungrounded outlets
406.4(D)(2)

 

[Randy1961]

So, his code reference was 210.8 and then referred me to Definitions of "readily accessible"
210.8 is not in question.
He is claiming that the AC service outlet and bathrooms (the only two locations he mentions) resets are not "readily accessible" from the electrical panel in the garage of a single family dwelling unit. We have duel function breakers on every 120 volt circuit in the house, so those locations are protected.

 

[acrwc10]

I have always found it funny that people would think the sticker saying GFCI protected somehow makes it safer.

 

[roger]

There is only one place GFCI receptacles are required per the NEC and it's not residential bathrooms. Shooting from the hip I think it's 680.85

 

[infinity]

He is claiming that the AC service outlet and bathrooms (the only two locations he mentions) resets are not "readily accessible" from the electrical panel in the garage of a single family dwelling unit.

Sounds like this inspector is up for some retraining because anyone who says that is clueless.

 

[curt swartz]

Circuit breakers are also required to be readily accessible. Ask him where he wants you to put the circuit breaker for the bathroom.

 

[Randy1961]

Yes, Curt, exactly...And my next question would be why he's only concerned about the AC service outlet and the bathrooms? The kitchen, front porch, back porch, jacuzzi tub, Xmas outlets in the soffit, landscape outlets, laundry room, etc...
For these locations the circuit breakers in the electrical panel ARE readily accesible? Where in the code book are these locations separated from all other required GFCI locations?

 

[Randy1961]

Here is the items in question and the code reference I was given was 210.8 and see definition of “readily accessible”
Keep in mind, at the electrical panel, we have duel function breakers installed on all 120v circuits.

 

[infinity]

Here is the items in question and the code reference I was given was 210.8 and see definition of “readily accessible”
Keep in mind, at the electrical panel, we have duel function breakers installed on all 120v circuits.

A dual function circuit breaker is code compliant to provide the GFCI protection. Barring a local amendment this inspector is just wrong and making up his own code. If he insists that he's correct I would go over his head to his boss.