GFCI randomly tripping.

[AC\DC]

I have some 240 volt (no neutral) led grow lights that keep tripping majority of GFCI breakers
Using 2- pole 20 amp BR Gfci breaker- under 14 amps. They work for a week then just started to trip. This morning they tripped and keep on tripping.
They unplugged all the lights that are effected and turned breaker back on and it held.
I get here and they all work now.

One two pole did not trip.
But 1- two pole that I used for a single circuit for outlets also tripped.
Usually I can find the problem by a unit that is going bad. I though maybe these lights were causing an issue but with the one 120volt circuit attached to the 2-pole also tripping making me wonder.
Could I have a batch of bad breakers? Or something else.
Longest circuit is 90 feet

 

[AC\DC]

Found one light that would occasionally trip gfci if breaker was cycled on and off. These lights are rated for 120/208/240/277
Wondering if the internal power switching is going out.
When I found the light issue I swapped the gfci out for a regular 2-pole and it tripped that also. When cycling that one

 

[MatthewABD]

Hello,

Just gonna bounce ideas off you.

If the fixures are also rated for 110v have you not considered using a neutral rather than 240v hots?

Have you already monitored the full load to
ensure you're not cooking the HR, is there proper ventilation for the LED fixtures?

I've had LEDs get too hot due to lack of heat dissipation in high output units that start cooking the internals causing constant trips; needed new fixures with correct heat sinks and trips went away.

GFCIs/AFCIs are incredibly finicky have you considered already swapping the the GFCI with an AFCI and feeding the lights on the load side? seeing if it's the tripping gets worse or better.

Lastly a neat little trick to see if it's breaker fault or not without actualling swapping a breaker put a vacuum or beefy space heater (>12AMPS)and see how it holds? No trip means it's probably defective units. If the internals have gotten already too hot over a course of time then that'll cook the fixtures pretty quick.



Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk

 

[AC\DC]

I could swap to 120,require a more work but I could try that. Temps are fine if it got that hot my plants would be dead. Room a never goes above 85 in summer.
FYI it’s a commercial grow

 

[ptonsparky]

High Humidity and condensation.

 

[AC\DC]

High Humidity and condensation.

Never thought of that. I’ll look into that. They are running a dehumidifier at 45%
though it’s at the beach with about 60-80% humidity just outside

 

[AC\DC]

Well as far as the GFCI goes I got there when it keeps tripping. Only one this time. Trips even when no load is on the breaker. I can’t believe i have 5 out of 8 gfci breakers that are bad. They do look like an older style possible been sitting on the shelf for several years.

 

[Strathead]

.
When I found the light issue I swapped the gfci out for a regular 2-pole and it tripped that also. When cycling that one

This jumps out at me. You are leading us to believe you are getting GFCI trips, but this statement and your first one about them not tripping for a week and then constantly tripping leads me to wonder if you are merely overloading your circuit, especially if they cycle, because LEDS have a HUGE inrush up to 100 times the steady state current. Start by reading here. https://www.eldoled.com/cms_file.php?fromDB=8935&forceDownload

 

[AC\DC]

The are rated 2.9 amps each at 240volt have 4 of them at amps total 11.60 with 1.25 continuous= 14.5 amps well under my 20 amp breaker.

My comment on the Cycling breaker on and off was because I did find one light that would occainsly trip the GFCI breaker and ALSO a standard breaker if I cycled the breaker on and off. I found that light as I was plugging lights in one at a time to try and find a bad light.

 

[AC\DC]

https://www.eldoled.com/cms_file.php?fromDB=8935&forceDownload

thanks for that info,cycling tripping was probably from the inrush did not think of that. Though on start up the controls gradually builds up to full power takes about 30 seconds

 

[AC\DC]

Found my issue. Panel is feeding couple other Remote distribution panel. Those breakers are fairly warm and look like the added heat from the GFCI breakers were causing them to trip. Moved some breakers around and now they are working fine. Wonder how much heat those GFCI breakers make?

 

[Fred B]

........ Wonder how much heat those GFCI breakers make?

On a some that I've tested I have gotten about 4-6 deg increase for same load size over non GFCI and the standard breakers were 2-3 degrees over ambient. AFCI's seem to be about 1-2 degrees above GFCI's. Different mfg's will be slightly different from one to another. Even at no load will get 1-3 degree over ambient (hooked up, breaker on, nothing plugged in). So I'm sure stacking would begin to cumulatively raise temperature of nearby breakers.
Heating on even standard breakers is probably why on the larger commercial panels (high load, higher voltage) will sometimes find cooling equipment for the panel (just my guess).

(Measurements are from a cheap noncontact IR tester, not set up for true scientific reliability. But ice will read at 32^o and boiling water will read at 212^o.)

 

[Strathead]

My neighbor had kitchen circuits tripping this weekend. They thought it was GFCI trouble. Nope, overloaded circuits. This makes me think, there should be a way to distinguish, what type of trip is the cause at a breaker. GFCI, ARC fault or over amperage.

 

[Fred B]

My neighbor had kitchen circuits tripping this weekend. They thought it was GFCI trouble. Nope, overloaded circuits. This makes me think, there should be a way to distinguish, what type of trip is the cause at a breaker. GFCI, ARC fault or over amperage.

Some of the new Eaton and Siemens have diagnostic light that will indicate tripping event cause by flashing a code.

 

[Strathead]

Some of the new Eaton and Siemens have diagnostic light that will indicate tripping event cause by flashing a code.

NEEDED.

 

[Fred B]

My neighbor had kitchen circuits tripping this weekend. They thought it was GFCI trouble. Nope, overloaded circuits. This makes me think, there should be a way to distinguish, what type of trip is the cause at a breaker. GFCI, ARC fault or over amperage.

Siemens also shows a diagnostic tool that can be installed for troubleshooting nuisance tripping usable on any brand. Just haven't found one locally.

Siemens Intelli-Arc Diagnostic Tool

www.ecmag.com

 

[AC\DC]

Well I though I found my issue when I posted #11 Just got around to moving panel on outside of building so out of the area with high humidity.
Spaced 2-pole breakers with 2 spaces from each other and none directly to the left or right on them so only one on each buss stab.
STILL tripping, I now have a new Plug on neutral panel so I will maybe see if a new breaker will fix it. IF not I also have a call into the manufacture.
Tripping is not from inrush now because they are all on digital controls that slowly turn fixtures on.
This is driving me insane, first time I could not solve something.
Any testing that I can do?
A standard breaker holds and like stated before under 14 amps.
Seems something causes the GFCI to trip and It's not heat issue.

 

[ptonsparky]

Is there any chance you have an EG conductor pulled. One that you can isolate and actually measure the leakage current? Gars usual suggestion is to insert a insert a resistor and measure the VD across it. That Would protect a meter /fuse looking for milliamperes that suddenly gets amps.

 

[synchro]

High Humidity and condensation.

Never thought of that. I’ll look into that. They are running a dehumidifier at 45%
though it’s at the beach with about 60-80% humidity just outside

Perhaps the GFCI breakers are not at fault, but there's leakage within the light fixtures and/or wiring that's exceeding 6 mA because of the environment they are in. For example, I assume that there will be fog off of the ocean at times. Also, there are apparently "sea-salt aerosols" produced by breaking waves, etc. that can penetrate inland for some distance. And the salt content will make such moisture more conductive if it gets deposited on surfaces.

 

[Fred B]

Did you ever meter the lines? If you have a 240v no neutral GFCI breaker, might want to check loads on each leg. If you have an imbalance that the GFCI sees as a ground fault it will trip. Remember the GFCI for PP is designed to tolerate not more than 5mil amp for short period of time (fraction of second). The are some LEDs that dont play well with not only dimmers but also GFCI or AFCI.