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GFCI randomly tripping.

Merry Christmas
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AC\DC

Senior Member
Location
Florence,Oregon,Lane
Occupation
EC
Did you ever meter the lines? If you have a 240v no neutral GFCI breaker, might want to check loads on each leg. If you have an imbalance.
They are balanced.
Is there any chance you have an EG conductor pulled. One that you can isolate and actually measure the leakage current? Gars usual suggestion is to insert a insert a resistor and measure the VD across it.
Yes I do have a redundant EGC I can isolate. I’ll have to think about this set up. Don’t do that type of diagnosis on a normal basis ,so I go brush up on what is needed
 

synchro

Senior Member
Location
Chicago, IL
Occupation
EE
You can measure the current through the EGC, and if you find it's significant then you can probably use that to help track down the issue. However, it may not account for all of the leakage current that could be tripping a GFCI. For example, if a fixture was attached to building steel then that could also be a return path for some leakage current from the fixture. Also, there might be leakage to ground along the wiring path where the leakage current is not returning through the EGC.

If you have a sufficiently sensitive clamp meter you can put the clamp over all of the conductors fed by the GFCI breaker and then use it to measure the actual leakage current the breaker is sensing. Unfortunately such clamp meters are somewhat specialized and less commonly available.
However, it's possible to increase the sensitivity of a clamp meter by putting multiple turns of the conductors through the clamp. Below is a picture of what I did by winding 10 turns of a twisted pair around a plastic tube (cut from a prescription vial). This increases the magnetic field produced by the current by ~10 times and therefore the reading on the meter by 10 times. With this contraption my clamp meter was able to measure the 8 mA leakage current when the test button of a GFCI receptacle was pressed, whereas before I measured nothing. I probably only had a resolution of about 1 mA, but this was still a big improvement.

The twisted pair keeps the differential mode component of the current (for example, a relatively large current feeding a load) from coupling a magnetic field to the clamp and giving a false reading of the common mode current, which is what we want to measure. I used a heater which draws about 11A as a load on the coil, and it had no effect on the clamp meter reading when I turned the heater ON. This confirmed that I had sufficient rejection of the load current when using this coil with the clamp meter.
...
...

coil_for_common_mode2.jpg
 

AC\DC

Senior Member
Location
Florence,Oregon,Lane
Occupation
EC
Well I reached out to the manufacture of the lights. They told me they have no issue ,then today they send me an email. This is a section of the email of what is causing it

“GFI breakers in some applications is the cause because they are very sensitive to high or inconsistent levels of inrush current. Though the fixtures idle at low amperage there is a high inrush current to charge the many drivers in the fixtures.

Additionally, the amperage increases at a higher rate with each fixture but the amperage increases exponentially per fixture. For example, If 3 fixtures have an inrush current of 15 amps but adding a 4th fixture could bump the inrush current to 21amps, 22 amps, or higher which would trigger the breaker.
As mentioned earlier, GFI breakers are extremely sensitive to inconsistent current so even if the inrush current is under the max amp rating for the fixture the inbound flux can trip the GFI.

As a solution, we recommend using non-GFI/GFCI breakers”

so I understand the inrush, but would that inrush trigger the GFCI device?
I don’t see how so cause GFCI is sensing a current imbalance Not an overload.
if the inrush tripped a GFCI it would as do a standard breaker
 
Last edited:

synchro

Senior Member
Location
Chicago, IL
Occupation
EE
From your post #17:
Tripping is not from inrush now because they are all on digital controls that slowly turn fixtures on.
Does the tripping happen when the fixtures are being turned ON or is it significantly later? And if it's occurring later, do the breakers trip together or independently from each other?
 

Fred B

Senior Member
Location
Upstate, NY
Occupation
Electrician
But 1- two pole that I used for a single circuit for outlets also tripped.
From your original post, is this stating that you tapped one of the 240's to make a 120? Is this on 1 of the offending lighting circuit?
What are your actual readings (voltage and amperage)? You state mfg specifications but didn't mention the actual readings.

They trip after so now that I sit and think inrush is out.
Three fixture to a circuit they trip all at random times one does not trip

Your statement sounds like you have one circuit that is holding.
Have you tried the one that is not tripping and swapping a breaker that is tripping to see if the circuit that is holding now trips? If it now trips and the circuit you traded with now holds it is, however unlikely, the breakers. If however the circuit breaker swapped to the circuit that was holding and the circuit still holds, start looking at the fixtures.
What sort of wiring method used, NM, conduit and THHN, or MC?
 
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