GFCI Receptacle Testing

[terryb]

I test a lot of GFCI Receptacles manually by pushing the test and reset buttons, and the outlet operates ok.
When i insert a tester, such as the traffic light type tester, i cannot get the same receptacle to trip. Does anyone know why. Thanks

 

[mdshunk]

What's the calibration date on your plug-in tester?

 

[terryb]

It doesnt have one, but its only about 2 years old, works just fine. Its one of the $10 dollar yellow ones from lowes, but trips most of the time.

 

[terryb]

I am worried, because i tested an external GFCI Receptacle protecting a swimming pool motor, the test and reset buttons on the receptacle worked okay, so you would think the receptacle is good. But the Traffic Light tester could not trip it, and yet the same tester tripped every other GFCI receptacle in the house. Confused.

 

[roger]

As Don said in the other thread, this is usually an indication of no Equipment Grounding Conductor, so IMO, this pool receptacle definitely needs the attention of an electrician

In older two wire installations that have been retrofitted with GFCI's, your plug-in tester will not trip the device, the onboard test button is all that is needed to test these units.

Roger

 

[terryb]

Thanks Roger for your thoughts. It makes you wonder how a homeowner can correctly check the correct operation of his GFCI Receps with the test and reset buttons alone.

 

[terryb]

My tester did not indicate an open ground in this case either, and the house is only about 10 years old.

 

[roger]

Terry, you have to be careful relying on these testers/indicators, they may indicate an EGC is present with only an extremely high resistance to the ground prong.

They are pretty good at indicating problems, but when showing "correct wiring", you must realize it is not 100% fool proof

I think the only recognized way of testing a GFCI (unless something has changed recently) is with the onboard test button, this is all the average Home Owner or User should rely on.

Roger

 

[terryb]

Thanks Roger, i could not agree more. I will check the GFCI recep just using the test and reset facility.
I only intend using the tester when i am checking a downstream standard receptacle connected to a gfci to see its connected/protected.

 

[terryb]

I also have concerns regarding the length of time it takes local authorites down here in Georgia to adopt new NEC changes, especially where GFCI protection is required (among other things).
I still see Kitchen countertop receps in houses built in 2004 where only the ones within 6 feet of water are protected, i see 3 prong ungrounded dryer outlets in houses built in 1999 and so on.
This worries me. The NEC is a generic code, and surely there must be some kind of acceptable timeframe involved for adopting the codes nationally. Any comments.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Terry,

This worries me. The NEC is a generic code, and surely there must be some kind of acceptable timeframe involved for adopting the codes nationally. Any comments.

There is no requirement to adopt the NEC let alone a requirement to adopt it within a time frame. That is up to the state or local unit of government. There are areas still working with the 96 code.
Don

 

[terryb]

Thanks Don,
As a Home Inspector that puts me in a difficult position. The same is also true of other systems, notably plumbing. How can i win, do i need to contact the original builders of every home i inspect to find out what code they adhered to??
Seems a bit extreme to me. I would REALLY appreciate any further comments on this.

 

[terryb]

Hey DON,
Further to my last, here is one good example of Code Adoption i cannot understand.
Kitchen Countertop Receps. Written into NEC originally in 1987 ( All outlets within 6 feet of water except behind sink and Ctop less than a certain width).
The requirement for ALL countertop receps except within sink area and width restrictions, came into NEC in 1996. 10 years ago. I still see houses built in 2003 with only 1987 codes in compliance. This cannot be right. Can it really take SEVEN YEARS OR MORE ((!!!!!) TO ADOPT CODES.
Forgive my negligence maybe, but i used to be a Home Inspector in England, where the Code is written and becomes effective soon afterwards. PLEASE HELP ME SIR. I simply cannot understand this business of local code adoption where a generic National Code is involved. Seems messed up to me.
Thanks Sir.

 

[mdshunk]

Wasn't there a NEMA bulletin that came out several years back stating that the test button is the only conforming test of a GFCI? Maybe that was AFCI breakers. I have been flagged by inspectors for brand new GFCI's that would trip with the test button, but not with the plug-in traffic light tester. So I reinstall another brand new GFCI that now trips with their tester, and save the old one to use on the next job.

 

[mdshunk]

Forgive my negligence maybe, but i used to be a Home Inspector in England, where the Code is written and becomes effective soon afterwards. PLEASE HELP ME SIR. I simply cannot understand this business of local code adoption where a generic National Code is involved. Seems messed up to me.

The codes are written by a "company" of sorts, as a model. It saves the various jurisdictions the trouble of coming up with it on thier own. They have to vote it as their code, so that the model now has the force of law. They may add or delete things here and there to suit special needs of their jurisdictions. It's called the "National" code, but it is not written by the Federal government as you might think. It's just a model.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Terry,

Can it really take SEVEN YEARS OR MORE ((!!!!!) TO ADOPT CODES.
Forgive my negligence maybe, but i used to be a Home Inspector in England, where the Code is written and becomes effective soon afterwards. PLEASE HELP ME SIR. I simply cannot understand this business of local code adoption where a generic National Code is involved.

The NEC is not written by any government agency and each local agency is free to write their own code or adopt the version of the NEC as they see fit. The national adoption of the NEC would be unconstitutional as building codes are a states rights issue and the federal government does not have any control.

 

[infinity]

Terry,

The NEC is not written by any government agency and each local agency is free to write their own code or adopt the version of the NEC as they see fit. The national adoption of the NEC would be unconstitutional as building codes are a states rights issue and the federal government does not have any control.

I agree with Don. A truly "national" electrical code will never happen. Why does it take so long for adoption in some areas? My guess would be politics. Here in NJ it takes about a year or so for the newest version of the NEC to be adopted. This allows time for the licensed contractors to take the required code update courses, and for the inspectors to become familiar with the changes from the previous version.

 

[JohnJ0906]

I remember one county in Maryland that used 93 while the most of the rest went to 96, then went to 99 when it came out. Most jurisdictions I am familiar with will adopt the new code efective Jan 1 of the year following the code being published ( Jan 1 2006 for the 2005 code), but it is up to each jurisdiction to decide when.... AND what they want to change!