GFCI required for theatrical lighting outlets in outdoor amphitheater?

[iwire]

If you have a coverd porch at a home do you GFCI or not?

 

[kwired]

If you have a coverd porch at a home do you GFCI or not?

Yes I usually do.
I had a long reply then deleted all of it but the previous sentence.

I must now ask if a temporary stage even would require GFCI for receptacles in question in accordance with 590.6?

Careful reading however, I see it as 590.6 only applies to construction and demolition type activity. The fact it is outdoors, (which is still debatable IMO) means 210.8 is still the general rule.

The completed stage is outdoors, the floor space of said stage that faces the audience may not be outdoors, the out of reach lighting equipment and other items in that area typically have a cover over them to effectively make them not outdoors. I would like to think this is not considered outdoors or why bother putting a cover over all the equipment?

If they are indeed outdoors they not only need GFCI protection, they also may need to be weather resistant and have at least damp location covers and enclosures, correct? Can't say I know what is commonly being used, but would bet 25 cents it is same gear they use for indoor venues.

I only bet 25 cents because I really don't know what the odds are and I'm cheap. If I lose I'd have to mail you a 25 cent check, plus a 48 cent stamp, and also have to consider the cost of envelope and check printing - they are not exactly cheap unless you order a large quantity, maybe even extra fees from the bank - maybe to cut losses I should just send you a quarter plus the stamp and envelope

How big does a canopy over any space need to be before the space below is not outdoors? A small closet that opens to exterior of a building - has indoor rated equipment inside (think heating cooling or water heater closet on a mobile home or any similar type of space). Accidentally leave the door open and a rainstorm comes up - that equipment gets more wet then most of the stage equipment in question ever gets.

Just my thoughts, I hope I never have to deal with such a situation because IMO it is not clear one way or the other.

 

[John120/240]

Just my thoughts, I hope I never have to deal with such a situation because IMO it is not clear one way or the other.

Good points kwired. Where the circumstances are debatable I would apply the most stringent requirements. GFCI protection w/bubble covers, WR receptacles

 

[kwired]

Good points kwired. Where the circumstances are debatable I would apply the most stringent requirements. GFCI protection w/bubble covers, WR receptacles

I have a hard enough time telling some venues or construction companies or other temporary occupants why they cant have a NEMA 10-50 receptacle that they often request:roll:

Know what typically happens? I install a 14-50 because that is what code wants and is what is right even without code and they make themselves a "cheater" (usually they already have one because they run into this all the time) to adapt from their three wire cord with 10-50 plug into the 4 wire 14-50 receptacle.

Then it gets even more complicated if you put GFCI protection on the 14-50 because of 590.6(B) and they use a cheater because they keep complaining of the GFCI tripping frequently.

 

[iwire]

The OP is an engineer, not a stage hand, I suspect they respect the codes and want to comply.

It is not a 50 amp outlet he is asking about.

Why must we take a basic question and twist it into a complicated mess?

 

[kwired]

The OP is an engineer, not a stage hand, I suspect they respect the codes and want to comply.

It is not a 50 amp outlet he is asking about.

Why must we take a basic question and twist it into a complicated mess?

Fine it is outdoors, it needs GFCI , weather resistant receptacles, and weatherproof in use covers

I think he asked because he wanted some opinions:roll:

 

[John120/240]

The OP is an engineer, not a stage hand, I suspect they respect the codes and want to comply.

It is not a 50 amp outlet he is asking about.

Why must we take a basic question and twist it into a complicated mess?

Sometimes the additional information is "I can apply that method to this job next week" Other times it is " What the HECK was he thinking".. Long dissertations about some technical topic can be too much...but then I don't have to read it either.

 

[kwired]

The OP is an engineer, not a stage hand, I suspect they respect the codes and want to comply.

It is not a 50 amp outlet he is asking about.

Why must we take a basic question and twist it into a complicated mess?

Fine it is outdoors, it needs GFCI , weather resistant receptacles, and weatherproof in use covers

I think he asked because he wanted some opinions:roll:

Sorry I kind of overreacted, yet kept cool enough not to post anything that would be removed, I thought questioning whether or not this location is considered indoors or outdoors was a valid question, the comments on 50 amp outlet was rambling on in a different tangent - which if you want to police that kind of activity you would need to go back and delete or at least edit portions of about 30-60% of everything ever posted here.

Do you have a reference to any code that specifically says this is an outdoor location?

A porch at a dwelling was a good analogy to some extent, but this is not a dwelling either.

210.8 (B)(6) does mention indoor wet locations, which the floor area below this application may very well be an indoor wet location, but the location of the outlets in question very well could be an indoor dry or maybe at very least a damp location.